Minutes of Conversation at the Official Meeting between the Romanian Delegation and the Korean Delegation

Participants:

From Romania: Nicolae Ceausescu, the General Secretary of the Romanian Communist Party, President of the Socialist Republic of Romania, Elena Ceausescu, member of the Executive Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Romanian Communist Party, Cornel Burtica, member of the Executive Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Romanian Communist Party, Vice-Prime Minister of the Romanian Government, Minister of Foreign Trade and International Economic Cooperation, Dumitru Popescu, member of the Executive Political Committee, secretary of the Central Committee of the Romanian Communist Party, Stefan Andrei, Deputy member of the Executive Political Committee, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Vasile Musat, secretary of the Central Committee of the Romanian Communist Party, Vasile Pungan, member of the Central Committee of the RCP, Minister within the Presidency of the Socialist Republic of Romania, head of the councilors group of the President of the republic, Dumitru Popa, Romanian ambassador to Pyeongyang.

From the Democratic People's Republic of Korea: Comrade Kim Il Sung, General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Workers’ Party of Korea, president of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Kim Song-ae [Kim Song Ae], member of Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, president of the Korean Democratic Women’s Union, Li Jong-ok [Ri Jong Ok] member of the Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, premier of the Administrative Council of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Kye Ung-tae [Kye Ung Tae], member of the Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, Vice-Premier of the Administrative Council, Kim Yong-nam [Kim Yong Nam], deputy member of the Political committee, Secretary of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, Vice-Premier of the Administrative Council, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Kong Jin-tae [Kong Jin Tae], member of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, Vice-Premier of the Administrative Council,  Shin In-ha [Sin In Ha], ambassador of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea to Bucharest.

[Exchange of pleasantries]

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Regarding the situation in Romania, we are now in the third year of the 1976-1980 Five-Year Plan. I could say that, generally, the Eleventh Congress’ decisions regarding the Five-Year Plan are being carried out in good circumstances. In the first two years of this Five-Year Plan, the rhythm of production was of 12.5 percent per year. In agriculture, as well, we had an average production of over 19 billion tons of grain and, of course, the other branches developed in an adequate way. We have a particular interest in modernization of the industry, in the improvement of the technological and qualitative [training] and in the growth of work productivity and economic efficiency at a fast rate. In this respect, in March we adopted at the Plenum of the Central Committee a series of decisions regarding the improvement of the units’ planning and administration. The main goal of those measures was to raise a sense of responsibility in the field of self-administration and self-management of the economic unit in factories. As well, with respect to economic indicators, we intend to prioritize net production to spur the activity of increasing economic efficiency. Also, since last year, we have adopted a series of measures for the accelerated growth of the work force’s income. Compared to the Five-Year Plan’s provisions for the growth of the real income by 20 percent, based on some measures, those incomes will raise by 32 percent. As well, in this respect, we plan to include the principle of work force participation to benefit the wage system, meaning that a part of the benefits will be allocated to the workers at the end of each year, based on the contribution brought to the completion of the plan and the development of every factory. Likewise, we emphasize the role of scientific research, education, [and] cultural-educational activity. At the party’s National Conference in December, we had already elaborated the country’s development directions for the next five-year, 1981-1985. We intend that by accomplishing the next Five-Year Plan, 1981-1985, Romania will reach a national income of 2,500-2,600 USD per inhabitant.

For sure, regarding the production, for some basic products, like steel, by 1980 we will have a production of 700-750 kilograms (kg), and by 1985 we want it to reach 1000 kg per inhabitant. As for concrete, by 1980, we will reach a production of 800-850 kg per inhabitant and likewise, by 1985, a production of 1000 kg per inhabitant.

Regarding electricity production, by 1980, we will reach 3300-3400 kilowatt hour (kWh) per inhabitant and by 1985, we will reach over 4000 kWh per inhabitant. So, even from the production per inhabitant point of view, we will come very close to the economically-developed countries. Of course, the main focus is on the future development of the machine production industry and chemistry. Regarding machine production, we emphasize on heavy-machines and machinery production industry. In chemistry, on top of the production of fertilizers and substances required for the crops, we strongly develop plastic masses, fibers and synthetic fibers. Generally, the petro-chemistry has a large share in the national economy, as it should.

Regarding agriculture, we anticipated that by 1980 we will reach 1000 kg of grain per inhabitant. Now we have over 800 kg of grain per inhabitant. We will guarantee the mechanization of all agricultural projects with good quantities of fertilizer. We want to reach about 250 kg of fertilizer active substance per hectare. Likewise, we show a great interest in the development of animal husbandry. Materially speaking, those are the concerns and the development directions until 1985.

As I told you at our last meeting, we allocate about one-third of the national income to investments for development, and we will continue this in the next Five-Year Plan as well. Of course, in addition to the [existing] material problems, overcoming the status of a developing country also requires sustained activity in the field of science, education, economic management. We are striving to improve organizational mechanisms of participation of the working class, of the large masses of people in the management of all activity sectors.

Regarding the party, it currently has 2,760,000 members. We think that from a numerical point of view we are doing well; even the social composition is good, 70 percent of the members being workers and peasants. I could say that the situation is generally good and the people are working with enthusiasm to achieve the objectives for the development of the country. Of course, we have some difficulties as well, deficiencies, not everything works exemplary well, we must make sustained efforts to accomplish this development plan, but so far the results assure us that, definitely, when the international situation normalizes, we will be able to achieve the goals we set for ourselves.

I would not like to talk more; if comrade Kim Il Sung or the other comrades have any questions, I am ready to answer any questions.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

Thank you very much for the quite detailed presentation you made regarding the internal situation in Romania. We are very happy for your results, we are happy for them like we are for ours and we take into account that they were achieved under your direct leadership.

Do our comrades have any questions? They do not. Thank you.

We have enough time, so, if I may, I would like to inform you about the internal situation as well. Starting this year, we entered in the first year of a new seven-year economic plan. This plan was adopted last year in November, at a meeting of the Supreme People's Assembly. Numerically speaking, we could say that the situation is quite good. The plan is going to end in 1984. The numbers that we intend to reach by 1984 are as they follow: steel—7.5- 8 billion tons, 500 kg per inhabitant; for concrete we intend to reach 12 billion tons, which represents about 800 kg per inhabitant.

Regarding rice, you know that the arable land is limited and we intend to obtain a harvest of 12 billion tons. This year we decided to make an effort to obtain 8,800,000 tons. It is enough to satisfy our requirements and we do not import anything.

Regarding electricity, we plan to produce 56 to 60 billion kilowatt (kW), which calculated per inhabitant is about 4,000 kWh. As you can notice, we are a developing country as well. Regarding the chemical fertilizers, this year we plan to obtain around 5 million tons. It concerns all the chemical fertilizers, both based on nitrogen and phosphorus. Right now we produce about 3 million tons, and in the next years we want to increase the production to 5 million tons. Given that the arable land is limited to 2 million hectare, we are satisfied with the current production.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Active substance?

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

It is about the weight calculated in volume; in active substance, it amounts to about 1 million tons. At the current level, we do not lack chemical fertilizers; we have enough.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

You are then a developed country.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

Yes, in this case we are, if you consider that we have a limited arable surface. We cannot produce fertilizers based on potassium with the country’s raw materials, so we import them. Actually we trade fertilizers.

Regarding the production of colored metals, we plan to reach about 1 million, of course we target lead, zinc, aluminum, copper, altogether. We consider that it is quite good; it is not a bad number. You know, there is always room for improvement. We can reach this number considering we have rich deposits. While beforehand we were not able to produce mining equipment, now we can. We have a production of machine tools of a calculated weight of about 5 million tons. We also focus on heavy-machine production, mostly on large scale installations. We somewhat lack large machine-production factories and we are now building bigger factories. In the future, we want to focus on the ships production industry.

Basically, our economy, regarding trade, is bound to the Soviets and the Chinese and for this reasons we are somewhat limited, we have some restrictions; therefore, in the future, we want to develop trading with the other countries from Asia and Europe. For this we need ships. Without ships we do not have anything to send the merchandise with. Therefore we will focus more on the ship-production industry. We have assigned ourselves a target to build around 100 ships with a capacity of over 12,000 tons. In this situation we can also modify the trade structure a little. We have lots of requests for developing trade from the following countries in Southeast Asia: Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Kampuchea, Pakistan and India. All these countries have expressed their wish to increase their trade with us. We want to establish a balance of trade as well and, only by acting in this way can we overcome the current limits and restrictions. The countries that I have mentioned request lots of concrete and products. We have a lot of magnesite clinker therefore we will be able to overcome the current restrictions that we have in foreign trade.

We have also established a series of tasks that regard modernization, technology, science and basing the economy on the raw materials that we have and the objective is to develop the economic branches that have the raw materials secured. Of course, we emphasize modernization and mechanization. Like you, we are taking actions to raise the technological and scientific level. The problem with increasing the quality of products is very important to us. Our level of quality is still low and the quality of the merchandise is quite low; nevertheless, we talk about the quality of machines or mass consumption goods, and that is why we emphasize on improving the quality of products.

Currently, regarding the [standard of living], in our country, the problem is the diversity of the merchandise rather than the money necessary for buying merchandise, especially when it comes to mass consumption goods. This is why we now believe the diversification of mass consumption goods a high-priority problem and that is why the two main high-priority problems are: raising the products’ quality and diversifying the array of goods. The problem is not the money but the different kinds of goods the population wishes to buy. The peasants’ income is big enough but they do not have merchandise to buy. To solve this problem we use different methods. We develop large industrial central units too, and at the same time, we develop small industrial units, the local industry, where we will build medium factories and even smaller types.

We do not have high hopes regarding livestock; however, we are very optimistic about the development of fishing. We have a lot of fish. If we used to sell a lot of fish in winter, now, because of a slight climate change, we are catching a lot in the summer too and we want to solve the protein problem using fish. In our Seven-Year Plan in this field we have set the task of fishing 3.5 million tons of fish. We have a fish production of about 1.2 million tons and with the other sea products we reach 1.5 million; by 1984, we will reach 3.5 million tons of fish and sea products. We move forward entirely convinced that we can accomplish these tasks. There are lots of suggestions coming from the masses and there are lots of proposals regarding the accomplishing and exceeding the plan one year, a year and a half and even two years earlier. It seems like two years may be too much. Regardless, the problem is being studied. The circumstances are favorable, we have a good foundation. On this good foundation, if we organize ourselves well, we can accomplish the plan. The atmosphere is also good. Of course we will analyze the suggestions coming from the population regarding the accomplishment of the plan two years earlier. It is not a bad idea and we think that it is possible to accomplish this plan one year earlier. One of the main problems that will be decisive for the accomplishment of the plan will be the energy industry and if we will assure the assigned quantity of electricity. Especially in the Northern part of the country we have lots of power-plants and the production is affected by the lack of water. Therefore we consider granting more attention to coal plants in the future and I think we can solve this problem too, especially if we organize the [work-force] well and we build coal plants in a shorter period of time, because we need many big industrial units built that can help us in this activity. We do not have any remarkable hard problems.

The party’s internal situation is also good. We have about 2,200,000 party members and the percent of the party members relative to the population is big enough, but I think it is good. The atmosphere within the population is good; all the people are closely united around the party and everything can work very well if we assure the necessary raw materials. We have enough raw materials and we can procure them.  All that is left to do is to conduct a good activity for acquiring the raw materials from imports, which are harder to acquire. Considering we are facing the enemy, we sure have large costs and we have undertaken great efforts for the country’s defense, which has repercussions on this situation. Ideologically speaking, everything is fine and the people are closely united within the army, there is a lot of enthusiasm.

Regarding the educational system, as I informed you last time [we talked], we are staying on the same trend-line. Last year we have adopted the theses regarding the educational system and now we carrying out our activities according to these precepts. We focus on the quality of the educational system as well. Before, we have focused on the number, training and education of as many specialists as possible, but now we focus on the quality of the training, especially in the educational system. As I informed you last time, we are still carrying out a sustained struggle to put the two revolutions, the ideological-technical revolution and the cultural revolution, into practice. And this is the internal situation. An important problem for our country is the unification [of the country], which I would like us to discuss later. If you have any questions, please [go ahead and ask them].

Comrade. Nicolae Ceausescu:

I would like to thank comrade Kim for the particularly valuable report [he provided us with]. I am very happy for the results [you have achieved], for the prospects until 1984 and for your successes, because they strengthen the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and open up perspectives for a good cooperation between our countries. May you achieve all those objectives in the best conditions possible.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

Thank you.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

We could discuss something about the bilateral relations, and leave the international problems for some other time, for tomorrow. Or should we talk about international problems?

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

Discussions on international matters may take a while, so I think you should talk about the question of bilateral matters for now, [especially] since we do not have any remarkable problems regarding bilateral relations and we do not have any divergent views; the only problem that arises is how to improve the collaboration between us even more.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Of course, generally speaking, our relations are very good, but from an economic point of view we cannot be too satisfied. And maybe we should think what to do in order to have a higher progress rate of those relations. If the fleet is the only problem, we have developed our fleet a bit and we insist on developing it and we could find solutions to provide transportation [means for our commercial exchanges].

Comrade Kim Il Sung

For reciprocal transports, eventually.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Of course, we could consider creating a common transportation unit.

Comrade Kim Il Sung

It is one of the most important matters. Of course it is good, but we do not have any ships; how to do transportation?  We only have two channels to shortcut and exit [the country], the one that comes through China or the one that comes through the Soviet Union. If one of them is blocked, then we will have difficulties [with transportation].

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Then let us create another one with the fleet.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

That is what I had in mind.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

We are now building ships of 25,000, 50,000 and 150,000 tons. We even export ships. On this basis, we could create a shipping route from Korea to Europe.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

It is not a bad [idea]. Let us discuss this problem; it is a very interesting one. We have the maritime industrial unit Kopol—Korean-Polish—but it is not much, we do not have high expectations from it. We do not have enough ships so we did not think there was anything interesting about [this maritime industrial unit], but if we would make one with you, I think it would turn out better.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

We also have many relations with some states from the Southeast Asia. We now intend to develop the relations with Australia and New Zealand. We have relations with Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia, and we also are on good terms with Philippines so we could really create a route and with good results, I think. I discussed with our comrades from the Foreign Trade [Ministry] to aim to reach at least 100 million dollars in economic mutual exchanges by 1980 and 200 million dollars by 1985. These days, I would suggest that the Ministry of Foreign Trade study the feasibility of this development, at least in principle.

Surely, we developed quite a lot in our foreign economic relations. Generally, our trade with socialist countries represents about 46-48 percent and the rest is with developing countries and capitalist countries. We will have to strike a balance.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

We have over 70 percent of our trade only with the Soviet Union and China and therefore we are very limited. Because of that, when we talked about commerce we had in mind that in the future to have about 25 percent with China and 25 percent with the Soviet Union, and [as far as] what we are doing now, the growth we are achieving now, we plan to [expand our trade] with developed capitalist countries, third world countries and socialist countries from Europe. This does not mean reducing our trade with China and the Soviet Union, but maintaining [our economic relations with them] at the current level, and what we achieve in addition [to that], the growth of our commerce can be done through the exchanges with the countries mentioned earlier.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

We have about 20 percent of our trade with the Soviet Union; of course, we had 40 percent before. China is not too far, about 6-7 percent; we have to develop more, but along the lines of this diversification you talked about. We could propose to reach an objective at least with respect to what we talked about, considering that Romania is also developing, and we could cooperate in this regard.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

I think it is possible.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

It would be better for the ministers to meet and discuss concretely. Besides the long term agreement we should consider some agreements based on proper products in order to be able to provide their first-class production for a term of at least 5-10 years.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

On a long term. We are already discussing this problem.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Another question I would like to raise is the matter of a fishing agreement, of course, I am talk about the possibility of us fishing in the Korean waters in [advantageous] economic conditions, considering you have so much fish. We are recording a low fish production in the Black Sea and we have to go fishing in other seas.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

Generally in the summer, there is no fish. Lately, with the climate change, there was a lot of fish and we caught quite a great deal of it. I think you could catch fish in the winter, when there is a lot of fish, especially because with the cold stream from the north, shoals are going south, to the ocean, in the north waters. There is a lot of fish in the winter and we cannot catch all the fish there is. We have nothing against you coming to fish in the winter.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

I think we should set a fixed quantity, not an unlimited one.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

I have nothing against it, but it must be discussed. But we must consider that basically, there is fish only in the winter.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Considering Cambodia, at their proposal we can secure such an agreement with others as well, and we could catch a [certain] quantity of fish. Of course, we are not proposing that you want such a quantity of fish. We have some modest expectations to catch 500,000 tons from [various other places too].

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

The comrades shall discuss this problem.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Of course, considering our development plan, I think we should start considering establishing some more active scientific and technical programs too.

Comrade Kim Il Sung:

But we will be the ones that will learn from you.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

And we will learn from you and work together.

Comrade Kim Il Sung

We will learn.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

As there are many problems [today] and if we do not make efforts to maintain them at a global level, for sure, we will not be able to keep up with the other states.

Comrade Kim Il Sung

We would like you to give us some of the technology and advanced science you brought into your country.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

Without doubt we will cooperate. We agree. Here are some directions on which it would be better to take action in order to extend our collaboration. Of course, I insisted on the economic, technical and scientific problems, and it is understandable that our political relations are particularly good and that we should continue their development. We do not have any divergences; none of us pretends to occupy special or dominating positions, so we cannot enter into conflict.

Comrade Kim Il Sung

We are very satisfied by this. Let us agree that those problems will be discussed in detail by the comrades that work in commerce.

Can we conclude here today? Let us see, maybe we will go to the reception a bit earlier.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu :

Alright.

-2^nd June 1978

Minutes of Conversation between Nicolae Ceausescu, the Secretary General of the Romanian Communist Party, the President of the Romanian Socialist Republic and Kim Il Sung, the Secretary General of the Central Committee of the Workers’ Party of Korea and the President of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, 21 May 1978.

Comrade Kim Il Sung reported that at that moment, the biggest share of the foreign commerce of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea—75-80 percent was being carried with the Soviet Union and the People’s Republic of China. For this reason, especially when one of those countries did not deliver or buy some goods, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea [incurred losses]. In order to address this problem, it was decided that in the future the share of trade with the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China would be 25 percent each; about 20 percent for European socialist countries and the rest of the trade would be with the third world countries and some capitalist countries. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea would act to maintain the current volume of trade with the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China. All that would be produced in excess of the quotas would be directed to other countries in order to reach the proposed objectives.

Regarding the Korean-Soviet relations, the comrade Kim Il Sung pointed out that they were mainly good. There were some difficulties in bilateral commercial relations, especially when the Soviet comrades did not deliver the goods that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea needed. Recently, the Soviet Union had helped the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea with the construction of a refinery with a capacity of one million tons, but afterwards not only had they not delivered the required petroleum, but they also had raised its price a lot.

Referring to the politics of the Soviet Union, he said he could not tell if the Soviet comrades had a defined line that they were following.

Regarding comrade Leonid I. Brezhnev it seemed like because of his age, on many matters he no longer acted like he should.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu reported about the visit of the American journalist Valos, to whom he granted an interview as well and passed to comrade Kim Il Sung the wish of the American journalist to visit the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and to get an interview with comrade Kim Il Sung.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said that he would consider it and give an answer later.

Comrade Kim Il Sung reported that at that point in time, the situation within the Non-Aligned Movement was very complicated; non-aligned countries were divided.

Globally, there was a powerful movement from key countries to attract the non-aligned countries in their sphere of influence.

Comrade Kim Il Sung reported that, as far as he knew, many countries were displeased with the participation of Cuba to the military actions in Angola and Ethiopia. The Cubans were actually waging war in Africa for someone else and with the support of someone else. The participation of the (colored) Cuban military in the battles in Africa was not helping the nations on this continent at all.

The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea declared itself against such actions. The African states should be left alone to solve the problems between them by themselves.

If the Cubans really wanted to contribute to the fight against imperialism, then they should have supported Egypt and the other Arab countries in their fights against Israel.

The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea received lots of support requests from African countries involved in conflicts, but it did not reply to any of them. During the wars in Vietnam, Cambodia and the Near East, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea offered substantial help, even by participating with several military aircraft formations.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu informed about the content of the speeches held at Beijing by the foreign minister of the People’s Republic of China and U.S Secretary of Defense, as well of President Carter’s declarations regarding the normalization of American-Chinese relations.

Comrade Kim Il Sung reported that he had information according to which the normalization of the American-Chinese relations would result in the moving of the American Embassy from Taiwan to Beijing and the transfer of the actual representation from Beijing to Taiwan. There were other sources saying that the Chinese comrades feared that after the withdrawal of the Americans from Taiwan, their place would be taken by the Soviets.

Considering the fact that Chiang Kai-Shek’s son was supported by the Americans, it was hard to imagine that the Americans would leave Taiwan promptly.

Comrade Kim Il Sung agreed with the idea that the Soviets’ actions on the international stage were pushing both the Americans and the Chinese to act for the normalization of bilateral relations.

He added that the expansionist policies adopted by the Soviet Union and the United States of America, which implied the spreading out of their spheres of influence in Asia, were very powerful. Regarding the discussions he had had with Hua Guafeng, the Chinese leader declared that, for the time being, he was not very hopeful of the normalization of the relations with the United States of America.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu showed that the United States of America and the American Senate were interested in normalizing the relations with China. If this normalization would not affect other countries, it would be a good thing.

Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that the People’s Republic of China needed peace and security to develop its economy, to solve its internal problems and improve the living standards of the population.

For this reason, he personally did not expect that the People’s Republic of China would wage war in Taiwan after the Americans’ withdrawal.

Moreover, the Soviet Union was not ready to start military actions. The fact that the Soviet Union had big and well-trained armed forces was not bad. But those armed forces must be used for defense purposes only.

Lately, the Soviet Union has been selling weapons everywhere and is generally making great profit by selling weapons.

What is more, for military reasons and because of the mistakes [made by Moscow], the Soviet Union pulled out of Egypt.

With the occasion of the visit made in 1975 in Algeria he was informed that the Soviets asked Algerians to allow them to build bases on the territory of Algeria, but the Algerians refused. One of the objectives of building a Soviet military base on foreign lands was to impose their influence.

Comrade Kim Il Sung agreed with the idea that at that point in time there was no possibility of a Soviet-American conflict, but he said that the possibility of some conflicts should not be neglected.

Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that the Soviet and Cuban actions in Africa had a negative influence over the national liberation movements [there], and their interference in Angola, Ethiopia, Zambia and other countries allowed the danger of outside intervention from other countries.

In the official declarations and talks, the Soviet Union was claiming to be in favor of peace, but it acted exactly in the opposite direction.

Referring to the communist movement in Europe, comrade Kim Il Sung showed that the Koreans appreciated as positive the position of the communist parties from Italy, France and Spain, to act starting from the actual relations between those countries.

Comrade Kim Il Sung agreed with the idea that the foreign policy actions of the Soviet Union and their military presence in Europe are of such nature to make other countries fear the Soviet Union and no longer request the dismantlement of NATO and the withdrawal of the Americans from Europe.

Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that the complete failure of the revolution in Portugal is also the result of the reservations of the population of this country regarding the Soviet Union, as well of Soviet interference.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu informed about the conversations he had with President Jimmy Carter regarding the Korean problem, at the request of comrade Kim Il Sung.

Comrade Kim Il Sung informed that he asked President Tito to press the United States of America to accept negotiations regarding the Korean matter.

The response was the same: the United States of America cannot remove Park Chung Hee and they want trilateral negotiations.

The Koreans understands the difficulties the United States of America is facing, because of the economic crisis and the opposition in Congress regarding this matter. The problem of initiating discussions between the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the United States of America was discussed with the comrades in South Korea. They are currently against initiating trilateral negotiations. Of course, trilateral negotiations have some disadvantages, but they also have numerous advantages that cannot be neglected. During those negotiations many problems like the democratization of the South Korean society, the release of the prisoners from jails, the legalization of political parties in South Korea and the initiation of peaceful negotiation between different parties and organizations from the North and the South, could be solved.

The comrades from South Korea do not agree with the participation of the representatives of the Seoul regime at the negotiations, saying that it will encourage Park Chung Hee in his actions against the organizations and democratic elements that exist in South Korea.

It would be an achievement for the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea just to solve the problems of legalization of the democratic parties [in South Korea].

Comrade Kim Il Sung agrees that, if there are going to be negotiations with the United States of America, the problem of their retreat from South Korea should be discussed gradually. Even if there will be trilateral negotiations—United States of America-the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea-South Korea—their problems will be actually discussed only by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the United States of America. In the solving of initiating negotiations with the United States of America and South Korea, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has difficulties with the comrades from South Korea who do not agree with the participation of the South Korea. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea understands those comrades and advises them to accept, because a solution to the Korean problem has to be found. The radical forces from South Korea could have a greater success if the political parties of South Korea were legalized and the prisoners released.

At the request of the comrade Nicolae Ceausescu to be informed about the view of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea on trilateral negotiations in order to inform the president of the United States of America, comrade Kim Il Sung said that he could not give an answer yet, as he had to consult with the comrades from South Korea first.

Comrade Kim Il Sung believes that it will take a longer period of time to convince the comrades in South Korea to accept trilateral negotiations. In his [forthcoming] discussions with them, he will insist on the advantages that the democratization of the South Korean society, the legalization of the political parties and transformation of the armistice into a peace agreement will bring.

He informed Comrade Ceausescu that at that point in time, the democratic forces in the South Korea were not able to overthrow the regime of Park Chung Hee, while on the other hand, the circumstances for military actions were not favorable. For this reason, he believes that another way out must be found, a way of taking action on the unification problem.

Considering the possibility of negotiations with the United States of America, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea criticized Jimmy Carter only once, on the occasion of the American-South-Korean maneuvers.

-22 May 1978-

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu invited comrade Kim Il Sung to spend his vacation in Romania.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said he planned to visit some socialist countries in Europe, and so, he would agree to spend his vacation in Romania.

Comrade Kim Il Sung informed he was invited to visit Czechoslovakia, German Democratic Republic, the Soviet Union, Syria, Egypt and many other countries.

On the occasion of his visit in Korea in 1977, comrade Tito addressed him an invitation to visit him in Yugoslavia.

On the occasion of his recent visit in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Hua Guofeng informed him that he planned to visit Romania and Yugoslavia in the second half of 1978.

As he had not been in the People’s Republic of China since 1975, comrade Kim Il Sung informed that, in the future, he planned to visit China.

From the recent discussions with President Hua Guofeng, the latter informed him that, because of the numerous problems he had to deal with in 1976 he lost 16 lbs. Kim Il Sung added that, indeed, the People’s Republic of China has faced many difficulties in the last 2 years, and on the other hand, it has lost several leaders: Mao Zedong, Zhou Enlai, Zhou De and others as well.

In the discussions held with President Hua Guofeng, the latter informed him that the People’s Republic of China would like to improve its relations with Yugoslavia. Even the former president Mao Zedong recognized that he did not do well in China’s relations with Yugoslavia.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said he had information that Albania held the Chinese comrades from improving their relations with Yugoslavia.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu said that Romania had good state relations with Albania. We do not have any party relations.

Regarding the proposals to have party relations, the Albanian comrades said that in this matter “we have to advance gradually.” The Romanians agreed with the proposals of the Albanian comrades to expand economic exchanges even more. There are no special problems between Romania and Albania. We had good relations in the past too; many Albanian citizens studied in Romania. In the discussions with the Chinese and Albanian comrades, the Romanians said that it is not good for the People’s Republic of China and the People’s Republic of Albania to have relations with different groups from Europe that call themselves communist.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said that if Albania is isolated, it is because it has isolated itself.

At the request of comrade Kim Il Sung to be informed about the relations between Albania and Yugoslavia, comrade Nicolae Ceausescu reported that the relations are normal. Economic relations are good though.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu then reported about the relations of Romania with socialist countries, emphasizing on the following: the relations with Bulgaria are good. We are building a hydro plant on the Danube, a chemical industrial unit and a heavy-machinery factory. With the German Democratic Republic we maintain good relations. Between 1976 and 1977, there have been visits at the highest level between the two countries. In 1977, comrade Nicolae Ceausescu visited Poland. Bilateral relations [with Poland] are good. It looks like the Poles have some economic difficulties and they are forced to import cereals. Relations with Czechoslovakia are good; in 1977, comrade Husak visited Romania. Actually, Romania had good relations with Czechoslovakia since before the liberation. It looks like Czechoslovakia has some internal problems, including the presence of the Soviet troops. In 1977 comrade Nicolae Ceausescu had a meeting with comrade Kadar, at the border between the two countries. Bilateral relations [with Hungary] are good. There is a Hungarian minority in Romania and they [the Hungarians] are interfering a little bit in this matter and they are seeking to agitate the chauvinistic elements [among them]. There is a smaller Romanian minority in Hungary as well. During bilateral negotiations it was decided that each country has to resolve their minority problems. Unofficially, the Hungarians undertake some activities causing turmoil.

Relations with the Soviet Union are good. There were serious discussions on bilateral matters with the Soviet Union, even on the Bessarabia and Bucovina matters. Romania does not have territorial claims, but it cannot accept [the claim] that the two territories were freed of Czarism when [in reality] they were actually occupied by force. A state was established on Moldavian territory and Romania admits this fact. In 1976, Leonid Brezhnev made an official visit to Romania, and with this occasion, a common Declaration it was adopted.

In the relations with the Soviet Union, there are some differences of opinions regarding international matters, the problems regarding the COMECON and the Warsaw Pact. The Soviet side is for integration, but Romania is against it. The other socialist countries in Europe are for integration, but they act against it.

Soviet-Romanian economic relations are good. About 20 percent of the external commerce of Romania is with the Soviet Union. We have good economic relations with the other socialist countries as well. The share of the socialist countries in the foreign trade of Romania is of 46-48 percent.

We have good economic relations with developing countries too, which have a share of about 20 percent of the foreign trade.

Romania has good economic relations with developed capitalist countries as well.

Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that the DPRK's share of foreign trade with the Soviet Union is around 75-80 percent. In the future trade will be structured as follows: 25 percent with the Soviet Union, 25 percent with the People’s Republic of China, 20 percent with European socialist countries, and the rest with Third World countries and capitalist countries.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu informed that Romania’s relations with the People’s Republic of China are good. At the discussions held at Beijing, there was an agreement on all problems discussed and a long-term agreement of economic cooperation was signed.

The Chinese comrades were informed that Romania does not understand the theory of the Three Worlds but we do not wish to have polemics on this subject.

It has been shown that we do not consider the thesis of the People’s Republic of China, according to which the Soviet Union is not building the socialism, to be correct. Even though the Soviet Union is making some mistakes, especially on international matters, and in its relations with socialist countries, it is nonetheless a socialist country.

Regarding the problems of the communist movement, the Chinese comrades said that they would think about it.

Both sides have the same position on the establishment of a new international economic order, for the protection of the independence and sovereignty.

Both Romania and China agreed that, on the whole, the danger of war did not vanish.

The Chinese were advised that it would be good if the People’s Republic of China and the Soviet Union would improve their bilateral relations.

The relations with the Socialist Republic of Vietnam are good. However, the Vietnamese comrades were not too happy about the attitude Romania had adopted in the conflict with Kampuchea.

Relations with Laos are good. Two years ago, the First Secretary of the Communist Party visited Romania.

Regarding Kampuchea, we have good relations. However, we barely have any economic collaboration. This problem will be discussed with the occasion of the visit that we will undertake to that country.

Overall, relations between Romania with Cuba can be seen as good. The Cubans request high prices for sugar, arguing that through these prices, socialist countries offer them support. We do not agree with this position, especially because of the Cubans’ actions in Angola and Ethiopia.

Regarding Romanian-Korean relations, comrade Nicolae Ceausescu said that they were discussed at the first meeting. They are very good; there are no divergences between the two countries.

Comrade Kim Il Sung informed that the relations between the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the Soviet Union have a distinctive character. On different occasions the Soviets affirmed that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is on the side of the People’s Republic of China.

In a discussion with Kunael, comrade Kim Il Sung showed that many Soviet-Korean bilateral problems were caused by distrust.

In the discussion he had with the representatives of the People’s Republic of China, the latter declared that they had nothing against the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea improving its relations with the Soviet Union.

Regarding economic relations, he showed that the Soviets built a refinery for the North Koreans, but now they raised the price of crude oil, which creates some difficulties for the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. In exchange for crude, the Soviets request magnesite. After finishing working for opening an exploitation mine, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea will satisfy all the requests of the Soviets.

In the relations with the Soviet Union, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea meets some difficulties because the Soviet Union is not giving them all the spare parts they need for the modern weapons of Soviet fabrication. By not delivering the spare parts, the Soviets are trying to make pressures on Korea, but they must know that the Korean comrades would not beg them.

Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that there are some divergences between the Soviets and Egyptians and considers the measure taken by the president [Anwar] Sadat as just.

Regarding the relations with the People’s Republic of China, comrade Kim Il Sung showed that in the 1970s the bilateral relations were quite tense. After the visit ofZhou Enlai to Korea in 1970, bilateral relations have improved a lot. During his visit to Korea, Hua Guofeng expressed his full support for the policies promoted by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and explained a series of internal problems of the People’s Republic of China.

Comrade Kim Il Sung informed that before the visit of President Hua Guofeng to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, the Soviet ambassador paid him a visit and asked him to press the Chinese to prevent any criticisms from being addressed to the Soviet Union during his visit. The Soviet ambassador was assured that no remarks on the Soviet Union will be made in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.

With the occasion of this visit, no common documents were signed, at the request of the Chinese comrades who do not practice such things. All which had to be said was said in the speeches held at the meeting and receptions.

It has been noticed that lately, in North Korea’s relations with the People’s Republic of China, the Chinese comrades no longer reproduce the phrase “Japanese imperialism” from the Korean documents, but only “Japan.” This is explained through their desire to improve their relations with Japan. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea approves of the improvement of the relations between the Chinese and the Japanese. China needs technology, and Japan needs raw materials.

As for the relations between the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and Japan, the problem is more delicate. Because Japan is for the existence of two Korean states, only economic exchanges and visits of some persons take place between the two countries. The matter of state-to-state relations with Japan will be raised only after the unification of Korea.

The relations of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea with European socialist countries are good. There are no reasons to have any other kind of relations. The Democratic People’s Republic is in favor of visit exchanges and trade.

Relations with Vietnam and Cambodia are good. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has always supported the struggle of the people in those countries.

About the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea position on the conflict between Vietnam and Cambodia, the Romanians were informed through the message sent by comrade Kim Yong-nam, secretary of the Central Committee of Workers’ Party of Korea, with the occasion of his visit to Romania, in the spring of this year. The conflict between Vietnam and Cambodia had actually started at the same time with the war in Vietnam.

On the occasion of the visit to Korea of a delegation from Cambodia, the Koreans were asked to stop using the word “Indochina”. It is true that there was a Communist Party in Indochina, but it separated and expanded in an independent way in every country later.

At a moment, the Vietnamese proposed the establishment of a united army of the countries of Indochina, but Cambodia was against it and fought separately. After the victory in Cambodia, the relations between the Workers’ Party of Korea and the Communist Party of Cambodia developed a lot. Pol Pot visited [the Democratic Republic of] Korea and had long discussions with Kim Il Sung, who regarded him as a competent comrade. The matter of forming a Confederation in Indochina was raised for the first time to the Koreans by Pol Pot. Both Cambodia and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea are against forming this sort of Confederation.

From the talks with Pol Pot resulted that within the Communist Party in Cambodia there were pro-Vietnamese groups, but they were removed, the situation within the party being normal at the moment.

Comrade Kim Il Sung thought the Soviets committed a mistake when they kept their embassy at Phnom Penh under the lead of Lon Nol. They committed a mistake later as well, when, after the victory of the revolutionary forces they withdrew the embassy. Actually they were kicked out of Cambodia.

The [North] Koreans believe that the Socialist Republic of Vietnam did not act properly on the border problems it had with Cambodia. The Parrot’s Beak is Cambodia territory. It was used by the Vietnamese as a retreat place, as a place for establishing hospitals and repair shops for armament during the war. Sihanouk’s permission to let the Vietnamese use this territory made the Americans disgruntled, and so they ordered Lon Nol to remove Sihanouk. This was also observed from the fact that once Sihanouk was toppled, the Americans took larger scale actions in the Parrot’s Beak territory.

The affirmations of the Vietnamese which have a large and well prepared army, that they were attacked by the Cambodians, are not believed by anyone. It is a well-known fact that the Vietnamese got 2-3 billion dollars’ worth of equipment from the Americans.  

If during the war the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea supported Vietnam and Kampuchea in the battle against imperialism, now, just like the Romanians, they advised them to retreat from the occupied territories and to try to solve their problems through negotiations.

The relations with the People’s Republic of Mongolia are oscillating, between good and bad, just like the relations between the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the Soviet Union.

The relations with Cuba were good for a while but they got colder later. In 1976, the State Secretary of Cuba paid Kim Il Sung a visit in Korea. On this occasion he requested the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea to take action at the next high level Conference of the non-aligned countries from Colombo so as the conference would not turn into an anti-Soviet Conference.

It was explained to the Cubans that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea had submitted a declaration on the Korean matter. Vietnam and Cuba were against a paragraph in this declaration in which we [the North Koreans] requested that the key-countries not to meddle in the Korean problem. Of course we do not target the socialist countries but the United States of America and Japan in the first place. In this problem the discussions with the representatives of Cuba were very intense, but the declaration was adopted as it was proposed. Cuba did not vote.

Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that just like Romania, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea did not agree with the Cuba’s action in Angola and Ethiopia. Many Africans were asking themselves what the Cuban soldiers are doing in these countries. As it is known, the Soviet Union is behind of all of the actions undertaken by the Cubans.

All these actions will have a negative influence over the summoning and the course of the high level conference of the non-aligned countries from Havana in 1979.

The relations between the Workers’ Party of Korea with the Communist Party of Japan are good.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said that at that point in time, there were many speculations at the international level regarding the visit of the comrade Nicolae Ceausescu to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the visit to China of the American Secretary of Defense [Brown]. Many think that those visits were preparing [the ground] for some negotiations between the United States of America and the People’s Republic of Korea. Actually, the 21 Japanese journalists group on the side of the Socialist Party raised the question of whether in the discussions with the comrade Nicolae Ceausescu the problem of trilateral negotiations (the United States of America, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and South Korea) would be brought up.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu appreciated that it was a good thing to start these trilateral negotiations.

Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that before taking a decision, he must first consult with the comrades from South Korea, which were currently against those negotiations.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu showed that the South Koreans were indeed in a special situation. He pointed out that undertaking military action to solve the Korean problem was not possible and it would be a shame to do it considering how beautifully built the city of Pyeongyang was.

The problem can be solved through negotiations, but for this, democratic activities in South Korea must be intensified; negotiations must be combined with fighting as well.

Comrade Kim Il Sung appreciated that the democratization of the South Korean society would result in the intensification of the democratic forces’ fights. Also, a positive combination would have as a result the legalization of the political parties and the release of prisoners from jails. Since the United States of America are not withdrawing from South Korea for the time being, solving those problems would be a great success.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu said that the main American tactic in Korea was to create two states. To annihilate this policy, sustained actions and a powerful movement in South Korea were required. All Kim Il Sung had to do was to convince the comrades from South to accept trilateral negotiations. The situation in South Korea, the high density of people per square kilometer, the over 3 million people in the armed forces, police and paramilitary troops, did not allow our comrades to undertake an action, they cannot undertake partisan actions. They could deploy successful actions only in the circumstance of a battle of North against the South.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu appreciated that the initiation of negotiations, even trilateral negotiations, would help the progressive groups from South Korea. Moreover, even in the relations with other countries, it would be easier to impose the idea that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea was acting independently and could solve its problems on its own, through negotiations.

Comrade Kim Il Sung asked if, by accepting negotiations with the United States of America there was the danger for the Soviets entering negotiations with South Korea.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu showed that it was impossible. There are foreign troops in South Korea and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has the right to discuss with the leaders that manage South Korea. The Soviet Union cannot justify by any means entering negotiations with South Korea.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said that he somewhat fears that the Soviet Union might recognize South Korea in the same way it did with Germany.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu showed that if negotiations with the United States of America were to be started, it will be hard for the Soviets to contact the South. Of course, by the lack of contacts and negotiations with the United States of America, it would be possible for the Soviets to contact South Korea. The situation in Germany is completely different. It is said that there are two nations in Germany.

Comrade Kim Il Sung currently does not know how the Soviets will react. He has some information that there are many contacts of the South Korean diplomats with the Soviet diplomats mentioned in the reports that the South Korean diplomats sent to the government.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:

The Soviets think that the international problems can be treated only through them. They also reproach Egypt that it is not treating the problem of the conflict in the Near East through them and does not let them solve it. Basically it can be said that the problems in the Middle East are a deal between Soviets and Americans.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: We consider starting negotiations with the Americans too. This problem was discussed many times at the party discussions. By common assent it was decided that such kind of negotiations are necessary, but we will not act until we consult with the comrades in the South.

The South Koreas want to participate in the trilateral negotiations without the representatives of Park Chung Hee, which South Korea cannot accept. Sadly, our comrades in South Korea have not become a force yet, and they cannot overthrow Park Chung Hee.

In the foreseeable future, they will send a comrade from the administration in South Korea to discuss this problem in detail.

Comrade Kim Il Sung promised he would assign the right people to analyze carefully the problem of receiving the American journalist Valas to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. For now, he has some reservations, not because he fears the American journalist but for the fear that later, Soviet journalists will visit South Korea or journalists from South Korea will visit the Soviet Union.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu showed that such an action from the Soviets would be a big mistake. The visit of this journalist in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea would be a great opportunity to illuminate the American public opinion [on what is happening in North Korea]. He assured Kim Il Sung that [Valas] was a serious, unbiased journalist and that he had promised he would publish the entire text of the interview with comrade Kim Il Sung.

Comrade Kim Il Sung personally thinks that the Soviets will not initiate relations with South Korea, but he cannot ignore the fact that the Soviets make many mistakes. The Soviets are still a key country and act accordingly.

The Koreans completely trust the affirmations of comrade Nicolae Ceausescu regarding this journalist and they will analyze the possibility of receiving him. It remains to be seen how the Soviets will react. Kim Il Sung is saying this because in the discussions with the Soviets, they affirm that in South Korea there is a de facto regime and a state and they let it be understood that they plan to recognize it. Through this, they have in view the recognition of two Korean states.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu exemplified the case of Cuba which did not have relations with the United States of America, but president Fidel Castro had welcomed many delegations of American journalists, senators etc. He expressed this opinion that before starting official negotiations with the United States of America it would be good to have such kind of contacts. Regarding the problem of “a second Korea” he showed that, if the division of the country takes a long time, then they could bring the problem of other states establishing contacts with South Korea as well. A presence of those states in South Korea could be a support for the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. If the unification takes less time, such contacts are useless. For this, however, it is necessary to undertake sustained efforts. The representatives of South Korea to a European country contacted the Romanian ambassador and informed him that they would be interested in discussing with Romania the problem of the negotiations between North and South. The Romanians gave no answer. He said that the Soviets would not take actions to force the recognition of South Korea.

Nicolae Ceausescu informed about the situation in Europe emphasizing on the following problems:

The conference held in Belgrade ended without the expected results, mainly because the positions of the United States of America and the Soviet Union. They tried to impose their points of view, but the contradictions between them were shown even more.

Currently in Europe, there are about 70-80 percent of the entire world’s weapons; the two military blocks, many bases and foreign troops are on the territories of other states, which complicate the situation a lot. Romania acts for undertaking firm measures, for the improvement of the relations between states, for military disengagement. The Soviet Union and the socialist countries agree with those measures. In reality though, the Soviet Union is subordinating everything under their negotiations with the Unites States of America. In Europe, there is a fear of the Soviet Union, as well of the increasing influence of the communist parties, especially those in France, Italy and Spain.

Overall, the evolution of the political situation in Europe is good; the influence of progressive forces is increasing, led by the communists. Romania has good relations with all the European states. On 13 July [1978], he will visit England. Romania has good relations with the communist parties, the socialist parties and other parties.

Middle East

Romania supported Sadat’s initiative, while the Soviets were and are against it. In two different occasions it was explained to the Soviets that their position in the Middle East problem is wrong, and by it they are casting Egypt away. If the Soviets are for a political solution, then they must accept that those countries involved in the conflict must discuss directly. In the discussions with the representatives of Egypt and Israel the problem of direct contacts between the forces involved in the conflict was brought up as well. Romania is in favor of the retreat of the Israeli forces and the solving of the Palestinian people’s problem. Romania has good relations with Syria and with Palestine Liberation Organization. The representatives of this organization are in favor of contacts with the United States of America but they were refused, for they do not recognize the existence of Israel. Romania appreciates that there are ways to solve the problem, because even the United State of America wants this.

In discussions with Israel, the matters of establishing relations with the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the People’s Republic of China were brought up. They were told that it would be difficult at the moment, but after the signing of the peace agreement, such problem can be raised.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said that even if in Europe there is a high concentration of weapons and forces, neither the Soviets, nor the Americans want to start a war. He does not see the possibility of military conflicts.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu said that there is no such danger, but maybe, if war starts in other countries, it may extendto Europe.

Referring to the events in Zaire, Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that they are mainly about Angola, from where those groups came from.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu showed that those groups are on the territory of Angola, and the Angolan authorities should stop them from such actions.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea had relations with the three national liberation movements in Angola.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Romania advised [Agostinho] Neto to make peace with the other two groups and form a united government. At the suggestion of the Soviets however, he stopped communicating with the other two movements that have influence on some tribes. For this reason the situation is still complicated.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu showed that another important problem of the Middle East is the re-establishment of the unity of Arab countries, given the continuation of negotiations between Egypt and Israel.

Comrade Kim Il Sung was informed by [President Houari] Boumediene that, in the near future, Algeria would send a special representative of his in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. It looks like he would bring up two main problems: Western Sahara and the Near Orient. After his visit to the People’s Republic of China, the vice-president of Egypt made a visit in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea as well. In the discussion, he informed about the Egyptian position in the Middle Orient and the visit of President Sadat in Israel. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea appreciates Sadat’s visit to Israel as positive. If peace is truly wanted, then direct negotiations must be held. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea was not against those Egyptian-Israeli contacts, considering that Egypt maintained its position of principle. The necessity to force the unity of all Arab countries was also underlined. Actually, way before that, with the occasion of a dinner held by the President Sadat in the honor of the brother of the comrade Kim Il Sung who was visiting Egypt, President Sadat informed that he will make contacts with Israel, but he will not change his position of principle.

The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea supports Sadat’s action and has published favorable unbiased news and information in this respect. In the discussions he is going to have with the special representative of Boumediene, Kim Il Sung will explain that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea supports the realization of Arab unity. In reality, the main country that is in conflict with Israel is Egypt. Egypt and Sudan represent more than 70 percent of the Arab population. Boumediene and [Colonel Muammar] Qaddafi are somewhere at the margin of the conflict, behind the front.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Syria is also interested in solving the problem, because it has some territories occupied as well. Romania has good relations with Syria and President Assad. We supported Sadat’s actions in public and we explained to President [Bashar al-]Assad and Boumediene why it is necessary to participate in the negotiations as well. Romania has good relations with the other Arab countries: Libya, Iraq etc. We were informed that the Soviets sent a letter to the president regarding the condemnation and the execution of some communists. We will maintain the same position in the Middle East problem, and we will support the unity of the Arab countries, as well as the direct negotiations between the states in conflict. The difference compared to the Soviets is that they want negotiations only in Geneva, with the participation of the Soviet Union and the United States of America.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Africa seems to be the continent where most of the conflicts between the key countries (Angola, Ethiopia, and Somalia) are. Until 1977, the Soviets have been trying to convince us that socialism is being established in Somalia. We had a different opinion. After that we abruptly cut our relations with Somalia and we switched over to the Ethiopian side.

Ethiopia and Somalia sent representatives to Bucharest, to whom we told that the conflict between the two countries must be solved through negotiations. At that moment there was a tension between Sudan and Ethiopia. Romania sent a representative to Sudan and asked the two sides to reach an agreement. Without the Soviet encouragements there would not have been conflicts between Ethiopia and Somalia. Romania supports progressive regimes in Africa. The Cuban intervention is not a [form of] support.

Comrade Kim Il Sung completely agrees with these facts.

After the beginning of the conflict between Ethiopia and Somalia, the two countries sent their representatives to Pyeongyang. Those were told that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea supports those countries when they fight against imperialism but not when they fight against each other. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has good relations with Somalia. The president of Somalia, as well as over 50 military leaders and provinces paid visits to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Relations with Ethiopia were, in the past, more strained, mainly because Ethiopia participated with troops in the war in Korea. Afterwards, after the toppling of Emperor [Haile] Selassie, Ethiopia sent a delegation to Korea to improve bilateral relations. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea approved this action, and afterwards bilateral relations were improved.

At Ethiopia’s requests for military support, the Democratic People’s Republic replied that it was facing the enemy and they could only provide little help. Once with the beginning of the conflict with Somalia, they requested help again, but they were told that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea does not support countries involved in conflict.

The results of the analysis made by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea in those problems are exactly the same as the conclusions the Romanian comrades have reached. If the Soviets and the Cubans had not been behind some countries, many conflicts would not have begun.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Romania has never contacted the Western Sahara Liberation Front. However, there were discussions with Algeria, Morocco and Mauritania, to whom Romania explained the necessity of reaching an agreement, with the participation of the Saharans. It was explained to the Moroccans the necessity of Sahara having autonomy as well, a problem with which the Moroccans agreed in principle. The reason for which Algeria is not searching for a solution is unknown. Given the existence of about 50,000 Saharans, they cannot do anything without the help of Algeria.

The importance of Western Sahara lies in the many resources and in not being land locked.

The beginning of a conflict between Algeria, Morocco and Mauritania will complicate the situation and it will not be in the Algeria’s favor. Morocco and Mauritania have the support of some western countries. The problem must be solved through negotiations and not through the use of force.

After the events in Zaire, it looks like France, with the support of the United States of America, is adamant to act more energetically.

Relations with Angola are good. In our discussions, they informed us that they are facing the situation of not being able to decide for themselves on all internal problems. It was given as an example that at every Romanian-Angolan discussion regarding economic problems, Cubans participated as well.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: It looks like Neto is not so smart. He paid a visit to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea before. On the occasion of the beginning of the clashes between the three national liberation groups in Angola, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea broke relations with all three of them. Later the relations were started again with Neto’s government, with which diplomatic relations were also established. Currently, the bilateral relations are neither too bad, neither too good. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea sent specialists to Angola which helped with the reparation of some economic objectives, especially of some textile factories.

The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has information from its citizens who have worked in Angola that everything is managed by Cubans there.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Romania has good relations with all the African countries except South Africa, and supports the liberation movements in Namibia and Rhodesia. The deterioration of the relations between the African countries is worrying; deterioration can lead to the worsening of the international situation altogether.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: France has begun to meddle in the internal affairs of some African countries. Behind the French is the United States. There is a danger that later, other states, like Belgium, Italy etc. will meddle in the internal affairs of some African countries.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: The intervention of the Cubans and the Soviets in Africa reinforced the military movements.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: It looks like neither the Soviet Union nor Cuba have learnt from history when the capitalist countries used war to get out of crises.

The problem of the developing countries

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Until now, not too much has been done regarding this problem. The North-South discussions had no results. Romania thinks that we should bolster the solidarity among developing countries in order to act with better results for the establishment of a new international economic order. From the discussion we had with the Yugoslavs, it ensued that a better collaboration between the non-aligned countries and the developing countries, and improving their solidarity are a must. In this respect, we target the role of Non-Alignment Movement can have.

Before, the Soviet Union did not actively participate in the solving of the problems in economic relations, saying that those problems mainly refer to the developed capitalist countries. Lately, the Soviets are paying a lot more attention to the problem of the establishment of a new economic international order. It was said that Romania and Korea could collaborate more actively regarding this problem.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: He thinks that socialist countries have lost a very good opportunity to developing their relations with the developing and non-aligned countries. The new independent states greatly need specialized personnel and technology, which they would like to receive from the socialist countries in whom they have put great hopes. Those hopes were shattered by the Chinese Cultural Revolution, Soviet manifestation of great power and national egoism and the inability of socialist countries to help them.

In reality, currently, only Romania, Yugoslavia and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea act independently. Vietnam has many problems to solve internally and is not paying too much attention to foreign matters.

In this situation, the newly liberated countries had no other choice than to go to the old metropolises, to their old lords: England, France, Italy etc. from which require technology, specialists and funds.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: In this problem the German Federal Republic is very active.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: In their relations with those states, socialist countries reacted with too much delay. At first, the newly liberated countries were very active in the problem of establishing a new economic international order, but afterwards they slowed down. Even now, it is not too late for socialist countries to unite and give those newly liberated countries, the developing ones, the specialist and technology they need.

Acting this way, we will be able to make the developing countries active again in the problems of the new economic order and remove them from under the influence of their old colonies. It must be mentioned that the Soviets were against the participation of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea at the Non-Aligned Movement at first. An adjunct of the Soviet foreign minister—[Vasilii] Kuznetsov—looked surprised when he was told that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea intends to participate in the non-alignment movement. It was explained to him that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea did not request the consent of the Soviet Union to enter in the non-alignment movement, but only declared that it intends to participate in this movement.

At the same time, the Soviets do not support the recently liberated countries to prevent them from falling under the influence of their old colonies again, but to attract them in their sphere of influence.

In the discussions Kim Il Sung has with the representatives of the non-aligned and recently liberated countries, he advises them to have relations as close as possible with Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Romania has good relations with countries in the Non-Aligned Movement and participates in their conferences as a guest. The Soviet Union was against the participation of Romania in the Non-Aligned Movement. Currently, there are 12,000 students from the developing countries studying in Romania, and 12,000 Romanian specialists are in those countries.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: Socialist countries must act in order for the recently liberated countries, the developing ones, to be autonomous. Those countries must be helped because some of them do not know, for example, how to make an economic development plan.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu:Romania is going to act exactly in this way in its relations with those countries, and at the same time it will support them to rely more on their own forces in the development of the economy.

Disarmament

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: knows that, because of the special situation, [the Democratic People’s Republic of] Korea is not too interested in the disarmament problem. From a principled point of view as well from [his] perspective, he knows that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea agrees with the [principles of] disarmament, especially with the [principles of] nuclear disarmament.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: The Democratic People’s Republic [of Korea] completely agrees with the [principles of] disarmament. How nice it would be if the imperialists did not force us to arm ourselves. The [principles of] disarmament coincide completely with the aspirations of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Once North Korea accomplishes [disarmament], it could deal with the details of solving many other problems.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Romania undertook intense efforts in this respect. We already have a resolution from the Constitutional Court and the Romanian Communist Party on the problem of disarmament, and at the Special Session of the United Nations General Assembly dedicated to disarmament, we will act firmly for moving to concrete actions.

The states of the world are interested in solving this problem. The Non-Alignment Movement has a good position and it can play a very important role.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea supports these actions on disarmament but fears that these actions will become assemblies of sterile, oratorical discussions.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: At some stages, such discussions are not excluded.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea will support disarmament more actively. The big problem is that the key countries talk about disarmament, but they act as they want behind closed doors.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: The great powers can no longer act just as they see fit. The Non-Aligned Movement should take a stance on this, and no longer accept the interference of some stated in their internal affairs, as it is currently happening on the African continent.

The Communist Movement

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: Great changes have occurred in the communist movement, again. An increasing number of parties have an independent position and are in favor of a new type of relations, based on the respect for independence and the rejection of interference in their internal affairs. The situation in Europe is better than before. In this respect, the position of communist parties in Italy, France, and Spain, as well as parties in other countries like Finland and the United Kingdom, is important.

Although not all parties have assimilated the theory of Eurocommunism, they are all active on matters of defending their independence and sovereignty.

We believe that the Communist Party in Japan has a good position too.

The position adopted by a great number of communist parties creates the conditions for establishing qualitative exchanges in the communist movement, in the spirit of asserting the principles of sovereignty and independence and ensuring their unity.

Even if the theory of Eurocommunism is not correct, we believe that we must not go into polemics publicly on this issue. What is important is that these parties want to assert their independence and sovereignty and to find an appropriate way to get to socialism. When [we heard] that they have rejected a certain model of socialism, we told them they were exaggerating when criticizing this model and they created the impression that they were referring to a specific situation in a socialist country.

The criticism of the CPSU against Eurocommunism is mainly aimed against the independence of these parties. The Romanian Communist Party is in favor of open discussions on these issues, a fact we shared with the Chinese comrades, who promised they would not take a public stance on these matters.

European communist and workers’ parties must be supported to strengthen their unity and solidarity, but not by creating an international [coordinating] body.

We are in favor of exchanging viewpoints on problems which may arise and to find the means and methods to strengthen solidarity. Contacts and collaboration with the socialist, democratic, Christian-democratic, ruling and national liberation movement are necessary.

Comrade Kim Il Sung expressed his full support for the ideas mentioned and said that he had held the same position in his conversations with President Tito. The main problem raised by the communist parties in Europe is the defense of their sovereignty and this is why they must be supported. Acting independently, these parties can solve their internal problems in accordance with the specific conditions in which these parties exist.

The Workers’ Party of Korea is sending delegations to all the congresses of communist parties and expresses its full support with their struggle and activity. The Workers’ Party of Korea is in favor of strengthening the unity of all communist parties, whether they are a bit more to the right or a bit more to the left. In reality, there are no parties which have never made any mistakes on the right and on the left. The Workers’ Party of Korea fully supports the idea that any disputed matters should not be discussed publicly.

In a discussion with Japanese and French journalists, [Comrade Kim Il Sung] said that ideas like those put forward by Eurocommunism can emerge in Asia or in other parts of the world too. The main problem is that all communist parties support the principles of sovereignty and independence.

The Workers’ Party of Korea sent a delegation to the Congress of the Communist Party of Spain. It is admirable that the Communist Party in Spain could be active in the underground over a period of 40 years. Its legalization is a great victory and confirms that the independent line it followed was a just one. If all communist parties followed the independent line, then their unity could be more easily achieved. It would also be very good if the communist parties created a common front with the socialist, democratic, [and] ruling parties. Actually, in all conversations with the representatives of other parties, we constantly raise the issue of creating a common front of action.

The Workers’ Party of Korea fully shares the views of the Romanian Communist Party on the matters within the communist movement. In a conversation with the president of Mozambique [Samora Machel], he informed Comrade Kim Il Sung that some parties are adopting the position of not accepting the transformation of national liberation movements into Marxist parties. [These] parties, being independent, do not need anyone’s authorization or recognition.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: We have the same point of view. The people of the country in question are the only ones entitled to say whether a party or another in that country is Marxist or not.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu expressed his satisfaction with the agreement reached on the matters discussed. In the future, he added, every [party] must be even more active in their region.

The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, the Workers’ Party of Korea and Comrade Kim Il Sung personally can play an even more active role on the international stage. This will result in strengthening the position of the Korean comrades in relation to other states, including the USSR and the People’s Republic of China.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu expressed his wish to intensify the contacts and opinion exchanges between the Romanian Communist Party and the Workers’ Party of Korea, between the Socialist Republic of Romania and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Comrade Kim Il Sung expressed his wish that more intense exchanges of delegations and information take place between the two countries. Personally, he would send the International Relations Secretary to Romania whenever he felt the need, and [urged Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu] to do send to Korea a trustworthy comrade [for such exchanges].

Moreover, more specialists must be [exchanged] between the two countries on economic collaboration issues.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: More needs to be done in [our] economic relations to set an example in this field too.

Comrade Ceausescu assured [Comrade Kim Il Sung] that the Romanians will do everything possible to initiate contacts between the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the United States of America.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: The information we received on the situation in Europe, on the situation within some communist parties, like the ones in Italy, Spain, as well as the details regarding Yugoslavia were extremely useful for the Korean comrades to reach a just position [on these issues]. Beforehand, they only had unilateral information which has not always proven to be correct and objective. Personally, [Comrade Kim Il Sung] is extremely happy about the relations he has with comrade Ceausescu, whom he considers a true brother. He ordered the workers in the International Relations Section [of the Workers’ Party of Korea] to carefully study the materials which are published in Romanian publications and take Romania’s position on various problems into account.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: We are paying special attention to the issues raised by Comrade Kim Il Sung. They were really useful. It is always good to have as many sources as possible on a problem.

Comrade Kim Il Sung, referring to the RCP party delegation visit to the People’s Republic of China in 1964, said:

On the morning when the Romanian delegation arrived in Bejing, Mao Zedong sent Peng Chen to Pyeongyang with a note in which he requested me to urgently go to Beijing, [to discuss] a very urgent and important matter.

After arriving in Beijing, Mao Zedong asked me, in the presence of Kang Sheng, Liu Shaoqi and other Chinese leaders, about who you were. I answered that Romanians are good people, they defend their independence and therefore we must go hand in hand with them

Both Kang Sheng and Liu Shaoqi contradicted me in the presence of Mao Zedong. Then, Mao Zedong told me not to listen to what Kang Sheng and Liu Shaoqi said and invited us to have lunch.

In the evening of the same day, Comrade Kim Il Sung paid a visit to the Romanian delegation which was in Beijing at the time.

In the recent conversations with President Kua Guofeng, [comrade Kim Il Sung] praised the sovereign policy promoted by Romania and said he would pay a visit to Romania to strengthen thire bilateral relations even more.

Comrade Kim Il Sung expressed his wish to have as many meetings and talks as possible in the future. The conversations they had allowed him to see that on very many issues their positions were identical. On the international matters discussed, there was a full identity of positions.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu said that they managed to get to know each other better and that he really appreciated the activity of Comrade Kim Il Sung.

Comrade Kim Il Sung showed that he very much appreciated the activity of Comrade Ceausescu domestically and internationally.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: There are no matters on which there are differences of opinion between our countries and parties.

As the conditions in which the two countries exist are so different, each [party] solves its problems according to the specific situation in their country.

Subsequently, Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu showed that on the occasion of his visit to the United States, he sought to see and know as much as possible, to meet different [political] figures. The United States have numerous [breakthrough] in science, technology and management from which [useful] conclusions and lessons can be drawn. Romania is not in favor of isolationism. The defense of independence is one thing, while cooperation is a different one.

True friendship and cooperation can only be established when both parties openly state everything that is on their mind.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: The meeting [I had] with Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu was very good and was extremely useful for [our] bilateral relations. They testify to the unity and solidarity between our peoples. Moreover, they are useful for other countries and peoples as well, as they can see in them our unity and cohesion.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu thanked for the invitation [to visit the DPRK], for the extraordinarily warm hospitality with which he was received, as well as for the full agreement that had been reached.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said he was very satisfied with the visit.

If the DPRK's relations with the USSR were to improve, he planned to pay a visit to some countries in Europe, including the USSR.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu said that such a visit in itself could help to improve relations with European countries. The Soviets are extremely sensitive if they are given attention.

Comrade Kim Il Sung said that problems with the Soviets would be solved at the right moment.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: We cannot solve all problems. There must be collaborations to solve them.

Comrade Kim Il Sung: It is necessary to cooperate more closely with the Soviets to solve the unification of Korea

.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu: If the Soviets are told something directly, they [sit and] reflect on these problems. Countries which think one thing and do another have the wrong approach. These countries are not helping the Soviets understand things clearly. The same thing was said directly to Brezhnev.

On this issue, Comrade Kim Il Sung said that during his visit to Bulgaria in 1975 an open-air rally was organized. Initially, only the portraits of Comrade Zhivkov and Kim Il Sung were displayed. Later, a very large portrait of Brezhnev was also displayed, pushed on the stage on a cart. At a reception, Comrade Zhivkov said that he did not always respect the guidance [from the center].

Comrade Kim Il Sung noticed such acts on the occasion of the visit he paid in 1956 to some socialist countries in Europe, countries which because they followed the Soviets in their policy to eliminate the cult of personality, did not display any portraits of their party leaders.

The only country which continued to display the portraits of its party leaders was Romania, which shows that it did not follow the guidance from the center.

Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu pointed out that the world is constantly changing and that this is a law of development.

7 June, 1978