Record of a Meeting Between T. V. Soong and V. M. Molotov

10 July 1945, 2:00 - 4:00 p.m.

Present:

Molotov

Soong

Lossovski Fu

Petrov Hoo

X Chang

Pavlov Liu

I. Draft Treaty

Molotov: Yours is different. Everything against Japan. You don't want to go further?

Soong: Could we mention Japan, Germany, and their associates?

Molotov: We have in view not only Japan but also Germany. Of course, it is not necessary that in 19 years you are expected to take part in war against Germany.

Soong: Agree.

Molotov: Quote paragraph 3 of preamble. We follow our treaties with other countries. Same with article 3 of our draft. Do you accept article 3 of our draft?

Soong: O.K.

Molotov: We avoid mentioning Japan though she is clearly implied. It depends on when we will publish this treaty as we are neutral with regard to Japan. If you agree to publish end August or beginning September then we don't mind mentioning Japan.

Soong: After you take action.

Molotov: Yes, we cannot foresee day exactly. Depends on transportation and supply. If you agree to this we shall have no difference of opinion on the treaty. For the rest no serious difference.

Soong: We need ratification.

Molotov: Agree. When we sign we must agree on publication later. Or sign later at end of August but after initial first.

Soong: Sign it now.

Molotov: O.K. Will report.

Rest to draft by our representatives or we can proceed now.

Soong: You have no objection to article 3?

Molotov: No.

Soong: We mention Security Council.

Molotov: Accept, but draft in wording nearer with San Francisco. We had similar reservation with France and Great Britain [ILLEGIBLE].

Soong: Hoo, Fu, Chang.

Molotov: One jurist, Nagaroff (?) [sic], Petrov.

II. Declaration re Outer Mongolia

Molotov: We have a new draft.

Soong: Quotes what Stalin said yesterday. I would like to draw a draft. We agreed in substance. It is question of form and I am sure Soviet government will meet our views reform. Stalin said also Outer Mongolia will not join Soviet Union either. For our home consumption, it would be good if Soviet Union say that after independence Soviet Union will respect its territorial integrity.

Molotov: Do not object. Do you accept paragraph 1 on present recognition?

Soong: What difference to you if we say that China has no objection to independence if after plebiscite Outer Mongolia. You are not afraid of plebiscite. I assure you there is no catch.

Molotov: To avoid unclear situation. Stalin wishes us to accept this draft. But if you have other suggestion we will see.

Soong: I will prepare a draft. Substance is same but presentation is different. Will give you this evening.

III. Chinese representative with soviet troops

Soong: "Recovery of national territory instead of "liberation," otherwise like Czech treaty. Three months after recovery, withdrawal of Soviet troops.

Molotov: Correct. Two observations:

1) Point 8 you spoke of. Stalin said: we do not want to stay on, but such a term is not in our treaty with Czechs. Thus in order not to create difficulties—having in treaty and not in another—we should not like to mention term.

Soong: Since it is you intention, why no. That will help us to explain Outer Mongolia. Chiang [Kai-shek] specially asked that.

Molotov: Element of distrust toward the behavior of Soviet troops. Not in Czech treaty, thus it would embarrass us. Ask you to reconsider.

Soong: That is a very important question. With Czech it is settled. It is to us a major point. We could have another exchange of notes.

Molotov: We will think it over. But in the agreement it should not be mentioned.

Soong: We can put it somewhere else not in this agreement, but we do want some form.

Soong: Please report to Stalin. We consider this a main point. Not that we distrust, but Manchuria has been so often the cockpit of many armies. Czech had not that experience. Our public would resist.

Molotov: 2) Please again explain point 2(b) / Chinese armed forces regulars, etc. Chinese representative directs co-operation. But there are two parties in co-operation and there is one to direct. It is not in harmony with point 1 where Soviet is Commander in Chief.

Soong: We will study the wording.

Molotov: "To assist the high command in directing Chinese armed forces, etc."

Soong: It is non-military zone.

Molotov: There is contradiction—since territory is recovered, there is no Japanese forces in it.

IV. Railways

Molotov: Draft calls for amendments, if we take your draft as basis. Take your draft for railways and ours on Port Arthur [Lüshunkou] and Dairen [Dalian].

Soong: We will see as we go along.

Molotov: Add to your article l: joint ownership of China and Soviet Union.

Soong: Chiang said ownership of China. Stalin says joint ownership. It should be qualified: main trunk line of railway. Point 2 says that again.

Molotov: We will think over these two points.

(Reads article 2). Stalin said that Railways can't remain stripped of all necessary enterprises which always served the Railway. We do not want new ones, but old ones built by Russians should not be entirely eliminated. Depot, factories, forests allotment. We do not propose to extend installations. Cannot have no auxiliary enterprises.

Soong: Stalin said you would give list.

Molotov: O.K. will submit today.

Soong: Understanding of Chiang was without subsidiary undertakings and branch lines. This is also clear from Yalta agreement. I think you don't intend to use enterprises for other uses than for railway.

Molotov: Yes, exclusively for railway.

Soong: I will wire Chiang.

Molotov: Coal formerly was not sufficient. Therefore we suggested that Chinese government ensures supply of coal. Coal mines which we had formerly may have branch lines. Use of the branches is to be reserved.

Soong: Let us see it.

Molotov: We must have detailed agreement. Doubtful whether we can make list at of all enterprises in one or two days.

Soong: I understand.

Molotov: Therefore, we cannot accept this drafting.

Soong: We will consider.

Molotov: You say safeguard of security ensured by China. I should agree to what Stalin suggested yesterday.

Soong: I have specific instructions form Chiang. We don't want foreign armed men.

Molotov: Railway must be able to work.

Soong: We can assure safety. We are anxious ourselves.

Molotov: We want to be assured.

Soong: We attach greatest importance. Sovereignty in Manchuria would be doubtful thing if armed foreigners were there. To us it is a matter of principle. To you it is a matter of safety. We assure it.

Molotov: We will think it over.

Not clear about transportation of troops. Troops must be transported.

Soong: There is open sea.

Molotov: Is it possible to send troops to relieve troops?

Soong: In my talk of 2 July, it was understood there would be no movement of troops except in war.

Molotov: If we agree that Port Arthur is for joint use we must be able to transport certain contingents of troops.

We can agree that they will not land nowhere in Manchuria.

Soong: Stalin agreed to joint use on 2 July.

Molotov: Yes, but there will be Soviet forces in Port Arthur. We cannot send always by air or sea.

Soong: Read minutes of 2 July.

Molotov: Stalin did not have this in mind. We return to this next time.

Soong: I am in great difficulty. I have faithfully reported to Chiang who expects accuracy on my part. Stalin said we will have few troops in Port Arthur so he had Port Arthur in mind.

Molotov: We will return to this. Re profits: should be half and half.

Soong: I think your proposal is fair. I accept.

Molotov: Item 6 very important. Should settle so as not to have cause of disputes. Propose our draft re administration of railway. Article 3 of our draft: 7 members 4+3.

Soong: If ownership is 50-50 why should board of directors be 4 and 3.

Molotov: Yalta spoke of preeminent point of Soviet Union. We intended joint ownership you conceded us on this point. In 30 years you will get railway.

Soong: We made concession 50-50. On this point real difficulty. In 1924 there were 5+5 directors.

Molotov: There were conflicts all the time. You accepted Yalta agreement.

Soong: Preeminent in regard to other powers, not to China. You must be more fair to us.

Molotov: Even 1924 provided for majority of Soviet. Urge you to accept.

Soong: Cannot accept.

Molotov: We shall not regard the matter as settled if you don't accept our view.

Soong: I gave you telegram of Chiang yesterday where it is said administration should be Chinese. Yalta is not sacred. On Outer Mongolia it said quite a different thing. We made a sacrifice.

Molotov: We had unpleasant experiences. We renounced many rights of Czarist Government in Manchuria but we must ensure good operation of railway. Hope Soong will defend our view before Chiang.

Soong: Our draft has no redemption clause as in old agreement why to give you out let until you have your own ports.

Molotov: We appreciate it. We must put in your draft that no foreign capital can be invested. No redemption in order not to cut off Port Arthur and Dairen.

Soong: Now I wish to say that this is an extraordinary measure to operate jointly such a railway on one's territory. Poland corridor led to war with Germany. But we try with you noble experiment. We propose to do what was never done in international relations. Therefore we must be fair. Otherwise there will be trouble. Our proposal is fair, taking into consideration that railway runs through China, that Russian lease has elapsed. I cannot recommend to Chiang, because his instructions are clear, he will turn down.

Molotov: On this point we cannot accept other proposals; that's why we stated it so clearly in Yalta agreement.

(He reads Yalta agreement).

We violated this by accepting joint ownership. We cannot go beyond this.

Soong: I will report to Chiang. I cannot share Molotov's view but will report. Yalta provides full sovereignty. But if commonly owned railway is dominated by foreigners there is no sovereignty.

Molotov: That's only an economic matter.

Soong: Sometimes difficult to distinguish between economics and political matter. Ask Molotov to report to Stalin also.

Molotov: Other points to be considered by our representatives. 30 years minimum Stalin said.

Soong: I wired already to Chiang.

V. Dairen

Molotov: Chinese draft not so detailed as Soviet draft. Let us take Soviet draft.

Article 1: Joint use of Port Arthur and Dairen. Is it acceptable?

Soong: Dairen will be commercial port, internationalized. How can it be so it is in a military zone? That does not make it a free port.

Molotov: There will be Chinese administration, except for Port Arthur and Dairen.

Soong: But you will have troops.

Molotov: In certain places only.

Soong: Dairen cannot be administered by Soviet military forces.

Molotov: No, we said so in our draft.

Soong: Why should we use Dairen as naval base since we have Port Arthur?

Molotov: There is only on 'bay' reserved. It was so formerly.

Soong: We want Dairen to be a great commercial base without naval base. We look to be only commercial (asks for Yalta formula).

Molotov: Will send you today. Chinese sailors would also be in favour for technical reasons. It does not impede trade.

Article 7 of our draft is not in yours about municipal council.

Soong: Your article makes Dairen a Soviet port. You talk about full sovereignty of China but you propose chief port to be Soviet port. According to telegram of Chiang, Dairen should be under Chinese administration. No military matters are involved. Sovereignty of China would be respected by giving it to China.

Molotov: Yalta agreement reads: "preeminent interests of Soviet, etc." We departed already from Yalta by renouncing the lease of Port Arthur.

Soong: Explains why he cannot accept. Must ask for new instructions.

VI. Port Arthur

Molotov: Reads Soviet article 3.

Soong: We drafted according to instructions of Chiang. No omissions if we take his point of view.

Molotov: We dropped lease to meet Chiang.

Soong: If it was a lease what would be the difference [ILLEGIBLE].

Molotov: Then we would be free to do what we like without negotiating with China.

Soong: Why should Port Arthur be administered by Soviet?

Molotov: It's a military port.

Soong: It seems to me there is no difference between lease and now. Chinese navy could also use Port Arthur under Czarist lease. Under Japan we could also use it. Glad to clarify my 'mind' about Soviet views. Will telegraph.

Molotov: What would you like to have?

Soong: Administration of Port Arthur and Dairen should be Chinese. You want it to be Soviet. It's a great deal of difference.

Molotov: How can it be otherwise in military port?

Soong: Dairen also?

Molotov: No, there is a municipality half and half.

Soong: I must ask for instructions. But time is pressing. You will leave when?

Molotov: 13^th morning by plane. Can ensure maximum technical speed for telegrams. Zone civil administration is Chinese outside the ports. Key positions to be filled with agreement of Soviets. Re internal security to be safeguarded by Soviets.

Soong: As to zone Chiang distinguished Port Arthur and Dalny when he talked to Petrov. Must reserve. Any other points?

Molotov: No.

Petrov: In my conversation with Chiang we did not specify questions of zones.

Soong: I will report.