Record of Premier Zhou and Vice Premier Chen Yi's Third Conversation with Subandrio

Secret                          Document 71

Foreign Ministry Top Secret File

Record of Premier Zhou and Vice Premier Chen Yi's Third Conversation with Subandrio

(Premier, Vice Premier Chen have not yet reviewed)

Time: 11:15 a.m. to 3:05 p.m., 27 January 1965

Location: Fujian Hall, Great Hall of the People

Participants of both sides the same as before

Interpreter: Huang Shuhai

Recorders: Zhang Yuee, Xiong Jingxian

Resume of Discussion

Subandrio said of the withdrawal from the United Nations that Indonesia, having withdrawn, will forever remain withdrawn. In the world there are two forces: one is the imperialist camp and one is the anti-imperialist camp. In the past Indonesia somewhat hesitated but now considers that imperialism is led by the United States and Britain. The path of peaceful coexistence, led by Moscow, is a sinister one. The non-aligned group, led by Tito, Nasser, and Tunis, are even more sinister. We agree to include Premier Zhou’s viewpoint in the joint statement.

Subandrio believes it necessary to draw in the Soviet Union and have it stand within the anti-imperialist camp and not push it towards imperialism. But the exchange of ideas between the Soviet Union and the United States has already gone very far. Whether or not we can draw back the Soviet Union is worrisome, so we have to prepare to carry out alone the anti-imperialist struggle with the exclusion of the Soviet Union’s help.

Premier Zhou spoke: The anti-imperialist, anti-colonial camp is now expanding, but there is still much work that we must do. In order to hold the Second Asian-African Conference, first we will hold a celebration for the 10th anniversary of the Bandung Conference to gain momentum and push forward the work. This is a skirmish. Indonesia may consider striving for the participation of many Asian and African countries or heads of government. It is possible to issue a general invitation to Asian and African countries, but we must focus on the key countries. We cannot invite socialist countries and Latin American countries, because inviting them to participate breaks the bounds of the Second Asian-African Conference.

Premier Zhou, in connection with the situation of which Subandrio had spoken, also expounded in detail on the issue of how to strengthen the struggle against imperialism and revisionism in five aspects: 1) rely on self-reliance; 2) rely on the people of the world; 3) how Khrushchev fell from power 4) whether or not the new Soviet revisionist leaders will change, and how to work in regard to the Soviet Union and other socialist countries; 5) whether or not compromise is possible for the contradictions between the United States and the Soviet Union.

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