Memorandum of Conversation, Albanian Labor Party Delegation with Mao Zedong

THE MEETING OF THE DELEGATION OF THE ALBANIAN LABOR PARTY WITH THE CHAIRMAN OF THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY, COMRADE MAO ZEDONG, AT THE CITY OF WUHAN, AT 5:00 P.M., ON 29 JUNE 1962

Chairman Mao Zedong received our delegation at the city of Wuhan. He had come out to the outer door, where he received the delegation. After the participants took their seats at the sitting room, Chairman Mao Zedong asked Comrade Hysni Kapo how the delegation had enjoyed their time during the days of their stay in the People’s Republic of China, Comrade Hysni Kapo, after answering the question asked by Comrade Mao Zedong, said:

“I would like to first of all express the joy of the delegation of our party for the possibility it was given of meeting with you personally, Comrade Mao Zedong. We value immensely the sacrifice you are making by expending a very valuable part of your time to receive us. We thank the CC of your party from the bottom of our hearts and especially you personally for this chance you have given us.”

Comrade Mao Zedong: Welcome.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: When we left Albania, the CC of our party and Comrade Enver Hoxha personally, asked us to bring you the most heartfelt greetings of our party, our people, of the CC, and of Comrade Enver Hoxha to the fraternal and friendly people of China, your glorious party, the leadership of your party, and to you personally.

Comrade Mao Zedong: I thank you very much.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: At the same time, we would like to express the deep gratitude of our people and party to the Chinese people, their Communist Party and its leadership, with you at its helm, for the extremely great, internationalist, and universal assistance that your people and party have given and are giving to our people and party during these hard moments we have been going through lately under the conditions of the geographic encirclement by the imperialists and their lackeys, the modern revisionists.

Comrade Mao Zedong: We must be the first to thank you because you stand at the front line, because you live under very difficult circumstances, and you fight in defense of Marxism–Leninism. This is a very valuable thing; it is more valuable than anything else. You did not fall under the strikes from the batons of others.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: We did not fall because we have good and faithful friends. We are proud that we are linked by such a great friendship with the fraternal people of China, and that in our struggle we have found and have next to us the glorious Communist Party of China, with you at the helm, Comrade Mao Zedong, a dear person not only to the Chinese communists and people, but also of our party and people and of the entire world proletariat.

Comrade Mao Zedong: The entire world supports you in your struggle, all the revolutionaries support you; everyone is on your side except for the imperialists, the reactionary bourgeoisie, and the revisionists.

It is very significant that your country was recognized even by Cuba, and precisely after the [October 1961] 22nd Congress of the CPSU. Cuba established diplomatic relations with you not before, but after the 22nd Congress. Cuba did this at a time when it finds itself in a very difficult situation; a time when it cannot avoid relying on the Soviet Union for many things. That is why I say that this is a very meaningful sign. At present, despite the fact that the leaderships of many parties stand on the side of the revisionists, the situation within these parties, nonetheless, changes continually.

The fact that the imperialists even today exploit many oppressed peoples is an objective reality. Two-thirds of humanity is now under the yoke of imperialism and capitalism. Does this mean that all these peoples will perhaps not fight on the side of the revolution? We say that they will lose their desire to wage a revolution only when they are no longer under the oppression of the imperialists and the reactionaries of the various countries. This is a fact that is visible by all; it is not a lie when we say that the imperialists and the reactionaries are still oppressing all these peoples. Sooner or later all the oppressed peoples of the world will definitely wage a revolution.

It will be very hard for the revisionists to continue ruling over the people in the countries where they are in power for one thousand or one hundred years. We see from now that the revisionists are not calm and they are very afraid of Stalin; Stalin terrifies them, though he died a few years ago. But the revisionists are also very afraid of Albania. The position that they take toward you can be explained in that light, otherwise why would they expel you by not inviting you to take part at the 22nd Congress of the CPSU and attacking you publicly? They did not invite you to their congress and attacked you in your absence. Such a move is not allowed by the Moscow Declaration. Even if we suppose that Albania has erred, then a meeting of all the communist and workers’ parties should have been called to discuss this issue together. But N. Khrushchev is afraid; he is very afraid of such a meeting. He has proclaimed at his own decision that you have erred, and he did this in the name of the party. The source of this behavior is the 20th CPSU Congress in which he proclaimed his war on Stalin. But we know well that the war that N. Khrushchev is waging against Stalin is a war that is waged on Marxism–Leninism. This is the essence of all the activity of the revisionists.

Revisionism, as a movement, took power in its hands in some countries after the death of Stalin. We did not understand this right away, but gradually; perhaps it was also understood by your party in this way. After the death of J. V. Stalin, the revisionists took measured steps. So, by looking at their activity, we understood well who they were. After the death of Stalin they expelled Molotov and his friends and continually waged a cleansing of the cadres that were not on their side. At the center this cleansing ran up to 50%, while at the base it went up to 70%. So, in this manner, a great change was achieved.

At the beginning we did not foresee the effects that would flow from the spirit of the 20th Congress. Later the 21st and the 22nd Congresses were held. From them we saw that N. Khrushchev was not calm; he once again showed that he is very worried about Stalin. That is why he once again attacked Stalin at the 22nd Congress until he achieved his goal of removing Stalin’s body from the mausoleum and burning it. But we know well that N. Khrushchev is not so much afraid of dead people; he is afraid of the living, he is afraid of those that support Stalin. Is it possible that N. Khrushchev, after he attacked Stalin, after he removed his body from the mausoleum and burned it, created better days for himself? What do you think of this?

Comrade Hysni Kapo: When we rely on the teachings of the always victorious Marxism–Leninism, whatever move that N. Khrushchev does will never give him good days.

Comrade Mao Zedong: That is correct. He seems to have been taken over by many devils from all sides.

Albania was not in the past a center of attention of all the peoples of the world; then your country was only known as one of the 12 socialist countries, but now, after the 22nd CPSU Congress, Albania is at the center of attention of the majority of the peoples of the world. Is it not so?

Comrade Hysni Kapo: It is so.

Comrade Mao Zedong: Such a phenomenon also appeared in our country. During the 22nd Congress, we published the speeches and the articles of their press that were full of attacks against Albania, but we also published the materials of your party. But the great majority of our people centered their attention on the speech of Comrade Enver Hoxha that was held on 7 November 1961. We did not make any comments or clarifications about this speech, but in our country all those that are able to read the newspaper read the speech of Comrade Enver Hoxha with much attention and more than 90% of them valuated it very correctly. Did this also happen in your province? (He directs his question at the first secretary of the party committee of the province of Wuhan, who was also present at this meeting.)

The First Secretary of Wuhan: That has also happened in our province.

Comrade Mao Zedong: (Directing his question at the ambassador of the People’s Republic of Albania, who is also a member of the delegation of the People’s Republic of Albania.) Comrade Malile, when did you come to our country?

Comrade Reis Malile: At the end of July of last year.

Comrade Mao Zedong: Have we met?

Comrade Reis Malile: Yes, we met when you received the Albanian economic delegation in January of this year.

Comrade Mao Zedong: That is why I do not know you that well, because I have only met you once. What about the other comrades of the delegation, have I seen them before?

Comrade Hysni Kapo: (After he introduces all the comrades of the delegation.) No, all the other comrades come to the People’s Republic of China for the first time.

Comrade Mao Zedong: How is Comrade Enver Hoxha’s health?

Comrade Hysni Kapo: He is very well, thank you.

Comrade Mao Zedong: What about Comrade Mehmet Shehu?

Comrade Hysni Kapo: He is also very well.

When we received the letter from the CCP CC signed by you, Comrade Mao Zedong, that invited a delegation of our party to China, the desire of the comrades of the leadership was for Comrade Enver Hoxha to come himself, but such a trip, in the very difficult conditions that have been created around us, is a desire that has become impossible to realize.

We greeted the invitation that you sent, Comrade Mao Zedong, as a very important matter. Comrade Enver Hoxha himself instructed us that during the exchange of thoughts with the delegation of your country we should express everything that our party thinks. It was a great joy and satisfaction for us that during the exchange of opinions with the delegation of your party, led by Comrade Deng Xiaoping, as well as at the other meetings that we have had with other Chinese leadership comrades, the unity of our points of view in all the principal issues that preoccupy our two parties was confirmed. We left Beijing with the impression that the talks held between the two sides are very valuable and beneficial and we will report to the CC of our party the points of view of your party. At the same time, we will specifically inform the CC of our party of your advice and thoughts from this meeting.

Comrade Mao Zedong: Very well, there is plenty of time to think. We are not afraid of anything for as long as the truth is in our hand. We are convinced that the truth is in our hand. We knew it at the Meeting of the 81 Parties in Moscow, too; though we were in the minority the truth was on our side. Since ancient times the truth has always been on the side of the few. In the beginning, Marx and Engels were alone. They were just two people, but with what speed their ideas were spread out! Leninism was not in the majority in the beginning either. In 1903, when the 2nd Congress of the Russian Social Democratic Workers’ Party was held in England, Lenin won the majority with much difficulty, but after the congress he once again was left in the minority until the time of the Revolution in 1917 when the situation changed once again as the St. Petersburg soviet secured more than 50%.

The revisionists and N. Khrushchev unmask themselves with their activities. The work that N. Khrushchev does makes the imperialists happy and not the peoples of the various countries, including here the Soviet people, too. I think that the majority of the Soviet people are not happy with the activities of the revisionist group of N. Khrushchev. They are unhappy from the war that N. Khrushchev has waged and wages on J. V. Stalin.

The peoples of the Soviet Union are also unhappy with the war that N. Khrushchev and his group are waging on the ALP and the CCP. This unhappiness grows continually. In China, our party, which was founded in 1921, at the beginning found the support of only a few people too. There were only 12 delegates in its 1st Congress, who represented only a few tens of party members, a total of 57 people. The declaration or the decision taken by this congress did not draw the attention of many people, but the facts show that our people gradually understood the line of the party; they absorbed Marxism little by little.

Our people have had two kinds of teachers: One kind of these teachers are Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin. The other kind is the various imperialists and Jiang Jieshi. If the teachers of the second kind did not exist, the revolutionary conscience of our people would not have been born; they would have never been able to understand Marxism, if they had not been oppressed by the imperialists and Jiang Jieshi. Perhaps the same thing happened in your country too; in the beginning only a few people should have believed in Marxism, but with the oppression exerted on the people by the enemies, they start to understand the course, to be clarified, and gradually to believe in Marxism. At the present time, the teachers of the second kind are the imperialists and the reactionaries of the various countries.

In a way, the revisionists are to us the second kind of teachers. On the struggle against the revisionists the people could not be clear on many issues. The modern revisionists are today playing the same role that the old revisionists, such as Bernstein with Kautsky in Germany and Plekhanov in Russia, played in the past. The old revisionists also brought forth the idea of the peaceful transfer to socialism, without revolution. So the theory of the peaceful transfer of power to socialism is not something new, it is an old theory.

The true Marxists of the time had many things to do; they were forced to fight against revisionism. Leninism, the Party of the Bolsheviks, the communist parties in the various countries of the world, and the Third International were born in these conditions, and then the revolution developed further. From one socialist country that existed before World War II, and that country was the SU, now there are 12 socialist countries. With the exception of Mongolia, the other 10 new socialist countries were born during or right after World War II. This is the dialectics of history; in the world everything has changed and will continue to change. Here I am talking about materialist dialectics. N. Khrushchev will not change all the Marxists and turn them into revisionists.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: It is so. What you have said is very correct; those that become revisionists are the undecided, only those that are not true Marxists.

Comrade Mao Zedong: Yes. Now we live at a time when the others are cursing at us. We have been and are being cursed at by the imperialists and the Jiang Jieshiists; later, along with them, we had and have [Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and [Yugoslav President Josip Broz] Tito cursing at us; now we have N. Khrushchev cursing at us, too. We are used to being damned by our enemies. The damning actions by the revisionists are malignant, as are for example their political pressures toward us, the severing of relations, etc., but they do not scare us. These are the kinds of activities they engage in.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: It is so. Neither their damning, nor their pressure will scare us. As you said, with these things that they have done and continue to do against us, after all the cursing at us and their attacks, they only managed to get the name of our party to be heard and followed all around the world.

Comrade Mao Zedong: It is so.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: You know that our population is small; for many centuries our people have lived under the yoke of the foreigners, but they have never kneeled before them. The only friends they had at those times were the rifle and the mountains of Albania, in fact even the mountains were at those times the property of the feudal owners and the rich people, and the rifles had flints. Nonetheless, despite the conditions … [a few illegible words] … of theirs, the rifles are very good and, above all, they have their party that leads them on a correct course; they have faithful friends who assist them. When I say that our people are not alone but have good friends, I am talking about the Chinese people, the glorious CCP, the peoples of the socialist countries, the Soviet people, as well as all the peoples of the world.

Our party, Comrade Mao Zedong, despite the rabid attacks by N. Khrushchev and those in the parties of the socialist countries of Europe that follow him, has never considered N. Khrushchev to be identified with the Soviet people and the Soviet communists. Neither the Soviet Union, nor the Soviet people, or the party of Lenin, are the property of N. Khrushchev. The Soviet party and people are educated by Lenin and, as you also said, the time will come when the revisionists will end up in the same place as their predecessors. This is what history teaches us.

On what you said that we should not be afraid of meetings, I would like to say that our party, like your party, knew what the situation was when the meeting of the parties was held in Moscow back in 1960; we knew that we would be in the minority there, and yet, despite that, we went to this meeting (both of our parties), we spoke there and fought together, alongside many other parties.

Comrade Mao Zedong: The same has happened in Bucharest [at the RWP Congress in June 1960] too.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: There we were in an even smaller minority.

Comrade Mao Zedong: We were attacked openly there and we were not prepared for it.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: We consider the words and the advice that you have given us here, Comrade Mao Zedong, to be extremely valuable.

Comrade Mao Zedong: I would like to invite you to have dinner tonight. Are all the Albanian comrades here?

Comrade Hysni Kapo: We thank you very much. We told you that we have had extremely good impressions from the talks with your delegation, but allow me to bring up only one issue, because for what I would like to talk about we are kind of worried. I am talking about our economic problems that we recently discussed at the last meeting with the Chinese leadership comrades in Beijing. We expressed our points of view on this issue to the comrades in Beijing, so I do not want to go at length; I only want to ask you whether the issue that was presented to us could be revisited one more time, because if what we were offered happens, difficult conditions will be created for us. Of course, we will fight to withstand and overcome them, but given the situation that our country is facing, I think that these issues should be revisited once more.

We understand your situation, on which we were briefed by the comrades in Beijing. We saw everything here; you placed your hearts in our hands. We saw a friendly atmosphere with all the comrades with whom we conversed. But the economic issues preoccupy us very much. This is all I wanted to say to you.

You should be convinced that our party, as always, will fight for unity and for the ever deeper embedment of an ever greater love for the Chinese people and your party. These are two things that we will continually strengthen in our communists and people. Our comrades in Tirana impatiently wait to be informed on the exchange of thoughts that we have had with you and will carefully listen to all we will inform them on.

We told Comrade Deng Xiaoping, as well as Comrade Liu Shaoqi, on behalf of the CC of our party that whenever you see it suitable, we await the arrival of a delegation of the CCP to Albania and assure you that it will be received with great joy by our people and party.

Comrade Mao Zedong: Very well, it is a good thing.

On the economic issue that you mentioned, Comrade Hysni Kapo, I am not informed in detail, because I have yet to read all the material. When I return to Beijing, I will speak with the comrades about it.

Comrade Hysni Kapo: What I have told you, Comrade Mao Zedong, we have also told to the comrades in Beijing; they listened very attentively to us. But we just wanted to say it to you as well.

(After the talks Comrade Mao Zedong posed for a picture with the comrades of the delegation of the ALP and then invited them to have dinner with him. The dinner was had in a very warm atmosphere.)

(Recorded by stenograph)

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During the dinner the friendly conversation of Comrade Mao Zedong with the comrades of our delegation continued.

Comrade Mao Zedong emphasized that we must show vigilance against the revisionists, because they are able to prepare surprises. He said that, “for us N. Khrushchev’s raising of the issue of the personality cult of Stalin at the 20th CPSU Congress came as a surprise. He had read a report on the struggle against the ‘cult of personality,’ on the basis of which a very short resolution was adopted on the issue. This all happened after the daily agenda of the congress had finished, and after the new Central Committee of the CPSU and N. Khrushchev as a new first secretary had been elected. Only later did he inform the delegations of the sister parties. The delegation of the CCP was informed by N. Khrushchev himself. He tried to convince us of the ‘grave damages’ that Stalin had made. They call it a ‘provocation’ that in China Stalin’s portrait is hung on walls. Yes, in our country, in Tiananmen Square, twice a year, on 1 May and on 1 October, Stalin’s portrait is hung, alongside the portraits of Marx, Engels, and Lenin. Neither of those four is alive, but the people want them there. If we do not hang the portrait of Stalin, the people will admonish us.”

Comrade Hysni Kapo added that “it is the same in Albania too. You were right earlier, Comrade Mao Zedong, when you said that both our parties and our people are like a single brain; they have a single heart.”

Comrade Mao Zedong then said that “there are also many bourgeois elements that are not in agreement with the accusations that N. Khrushchev makes against Stalin, they do not believe them. They say that they are not convinced that, for example, Stalin was a coward during the World War II, as N. Khrushchev is propagandizing. Furthermore, the removal of his body from the mausoleum and its cremation was not well received by the people.”

Comrade Hysni Kapo and Comrade Ramiz Alia added that this had never been seen in history. “The monuments of the tsars of Russia, from Ivan the Terrible to Peter I and others, who have done a thousand and one evils to the people, have not been removed, while the monuments, and even the body of Stalin, were liquidated.”

Comrade Mao Zedong then said that during a meeting that he had had some time ago with Comrade Abdyl Kellezi, he had asked him, “is the grass growing in your mountains in Albania after N. Khrushchev spoke badly of you? Comrade Abdyl Kellezi answered that it was growing well. I told him that ours in China was also growing just fine, too. The thing is that some people, especially in the small countries, are very afraid of N. Khrushchev and his group. Some are afraid that division might follow, because in their parties there are also elements that are for the line of N. Khrushchev. For example, the comrades of the CP of Indonesia are afraid that N. Khrushchev might unleash the reactionaries against them. Ho Chi Minh is afraid that, if N. Khrushchev expelled Albania today, he may tomorrow expel Vietnam too. In a meeting that Ho Chi Minh had with me, I asked him, why are you afraid? In our country, in China, the grass is growing just fine even though N. Khrushchev is attacking and fighting us. If you do not believe this, go have a stroll around our mountains and see with your own eyes. I told him that he should not be afraid, because whatever happens, the grass will grow just fine in Vietnam too.”

Amongst other things, Comrade Mao Zedong said that the former Korean ambassador to the Soviet Union did not return from Moscow; he had stayed there. “We also have a few elements in our country that support the line of N. Khrushchev; the rightist elements … [a few unintelligible words] … Pen De Huai in the party.”

“We also have maybe two or three people in our party too,” added Comrade Hysni Kapo.

“I know,” said Comrade Mao Zedong, “you had Liri Belishova. She has also been here in China.”1

Comrade Hysni Kapo took the floor once again, saying, “We had noticed something and have followed her activities very closely. During her [June 1960] trip to China, she secretly went to the Central Committee of the CPSU. During her return from China she, keeping this a secret from Comrade Haxhi Lleshi, went and met with [Frol] Kozlov. It seems that she received new instructions, but they were useless because the Meeting of Bucharest had already happened.”

Comrade Hysni Kapo also pointed out that, “The Soviet leadership tried to hold in the Soviet Union our students that were there for studies until before the 22nd Congress of the CPSU.” Comrade Ramiz Alia added that, “Despite the great attempts by N. Khrushchev’s people to attract our students using girls and promises, or by threatening them with their security organs, they only succeeded in keeping three or four people out of 1,500 students that we had sent to the Soviet Union. This was the result of all their attempts.”

“This,” Comrade Mao Zedong said, “is a victory of yours.”

Comrade Hysni Kapo pointed out, “In the struggle against the revisionist group of N. Khrushchev the unity of our people around the party has been strengthened like never before. This is perfectly shown by the glorious results of the elections for the People’s Assembly; only 37 people in all of Albania voted against it. Such a unity had never been seen in our country. The mobilization of the working masses is also at a high level. In fact, even many of the nationalists, which were not on our side, have been swept by a patriotic feeling and are now in support of our party and power.”

“In China, too,” added Comrade Mao Zedong, “a good part of the nationalist bourgeoisie supports our party.”

Comrade Mao Zedong said, amongst other things, that “The delegation of the CCP at the 22nd Congress of the CPSU, had seen [former USSR Premier Nikolai] Bulganin there, who was a delegate. He did not have a car; he was walking.”

Comrade Hysni Kapo told how, “During the days of the Moscow meeting of 1960, the delegation of our party had had some meetings with the Soviet leadership, who were trying to compel our delegation not to speak at the Moscow meeting. Kozlov, Mikoyan, Suslov, Pospelov, etc. came to the headquarters of our delegation then. They said that they were ready to give anything to Albania, including wheat, machinery, credit, etc., leaving no doubt that in return they expected the delegation of our party to keep their mouths shut at the meeting. Comrade Enver Hoxha answered them that we do not sell our principles, neither for wheat nor for credit.”

“Then,” Comrade Hysni Kapo continued, “a meeting was held with N. Khrushchev [on 12 November 1960, see Hoxha vs. Khrushchev, p. 190]. He tried to convince us that Stalin had committed errors and great crimes. He pulled out a letter and said, ‘Please read what Bulganin writes on the matter of the errors of Stalin.’ Then he added, ‘I get thousands of such letters.’ Comrade Enver Hoxha answered that we do not need to read a letter from Bulganin to get to know Joseph Stalin. The conversation turned sour at this meeting and N. Khrushchev, talking to Comrade Enver Hoxha, said, ‘I can better get along with [British Prime Minister Harold] MacMillan than I can with you.’ Comrade Enver Hoxha then answered to him, ‘We have no doubt that you can better get along with MacMillan than you can with us.’”

Here Comrade Mao Zedong cut in and said, “Perhaps he does not get along so easily with MacMillan.”

During the conversation Comrade Mao Zedong, amongst other things, pointed out that there is a phenomenon that is often visible: “In periods of revolution, the leftist deviations are more apparent, while in peaceful period, the rightist deviations are more prevalent. For example, in China, Gao Gang and Peng Dehuai came out with their rightist opportunist points of view exactly during peaceful periods. This shows that revisionism is not a phenomenon of chance.”

Comrade Ramiz Alia added that, “at the present time, the revisionist tendencies are more popular in the developed countries (for example, Italy or elsewhere). So revisionism has its own social base.”

Comrade Mao Zedong pointed out that, “[Italian Communist leader Palmiro] Togliatti and his friends are now predicating the theory of the ‘structural reforms.’ This is an entirely opportunistic theory, because these ‘structural reforms’ do not touch in the least the economic base of the capitalist system, while not touching the most important part of the superstructure at all. They think that they will take the reigns of power in their hands using a parliamentary course, without a revolution.”

Comrade Mao Zedong then asked how many kilometers of coastline Albania had and after receiving an answer, he said that Albania had great conditions for better links with the outside world. He said that during the Long March of the Chinese Red Army, the Congress of the Communist Party of China was held in one of the revolutionary bases. The base was surrounded on all sides by the Jiang Jieshist armies. Despite this, the delegates to the congress were able to break the encirclement and come to the congress from all the various regions of China.

Comrade Hysni Kapo and Comrade Ramiz Alia emphasized that, “the economic blockade that N. Khrushchev tried to establish around the People’s Republic of Albania failed and will fail. One of the intentions of N. Khrushchev was not to allow Albania to get closer to its friend, China. For this reason, the Soviet side also eliminated the Moscow-Tirana air route. But N. Khrushchev, who speaks so much about technology, underestimated [Albania’s] capabilities: we found our way to the People’s Republic of China, whether by ship, or by another air route. No matter how much N. Khrushchev might try, he cannot separate our two parties and people.”

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These were the main points of the conversation that was held between Comrade Mao Zedong and the delegation of our party during the dinner. Toasts were also raised. Comrade Mao Zedong proposed a toast to the Albanian Labor Party, to Comrade Enver Hoxha and Comrade Mehmet Shehu, to the unbreakable friendship between our two parties and people, to the victory of Marxism—Leninism. Comrade Hysni Kapo also proposed the pertinent toasts.