This records contains the full transcript of the talks between Mao and Pol Pot (an excerpt was originally published in CWIHP Working Paper #22, '77 Conversations between Chinese and Foreign Leaders on the Wars in Indochina'). Mao Zedong muses on the nature of the struggle between the capitalist and socialist forces within China. He tells Pol Pot not to blindly follow the Chinese model, but adopt Marxist theory to the Cambodian realities.
June 21, 1975
Conversation between Chinese leader Mao Zedong and Cambodian Leader Pol Pot
MAO ZEDONG AND POL POT
Beijing, 21 June 1975
[Mao Zedong:] During the transition from the democratic revolution to adopting a socialist path, there exist two possibilities: one is socialism, the other is capitalism. Our situation now is like this. Fifty years from now, or one hundred years from now, the struggle between two lines will exist. Even ten thousand years from now, the struggle between two lines will still exist. When Communism is realized, the struggle between two lines will still be there. Otherwise, you are not a Marxist. This is unity existing among opposites. If one only mentions one side of the two, that is metaphysics. I believe in what Marx and Lenin have said, that the path [of advance] would be tortuous. From the era of Lenin to the era of Khrushchev and Brezhnev, the Soviet Union has changed. But in the future it is certain that it will return to Lenin’s path. China is also like this. It may turn to revisionism in the future, but it will eventually return to the path of Marx and Lenin. Our state now is, as Lenin said, a capitalist state without capitalists. This states protects capitalist rights, and the wages are not equal. Under the slogan of equality, a system of inequality has been introduced. There will exist a struggle between two lines, the struggle between the advanced and the backward, even when Communism is realized. Today we cannot explain it completely.
....
You should not completely copy China’s experience, and should think for yourself. According to Marx, his theory is a guideline for action, but not a doctrine.
Mao Zedong muses on the nature of the struggle between the capitalist and socialist forces within China. He tells Pol Pot not to blindly follow the Chinese model, but adopt Marxist theory to the Cambodian realities. Excepts.
Author(s):
Associated People & Organizations
Associated Places
Document Information
Source
CWIHP Working Paper 22, "77 Conversations."
Rights
The History and Public Policy Program welcomes reuse of Digital Archive materials for research and educational purposes. Some documents may be subject to copyright, which is retained by the rights holders in accordance with US and international copyright laws. When possible, rights holders have been contacted for permission to reproduce their materials.
To enquire about this document's rights status or request permission for commercial use, please contact the History and Public Policy Program at HAPP@wilsoncenter.org.
Explore Related Resources
77 Conversations Between Chinese and Foreign Leaders on the Wars in Indochina, 1964-77
This groundbreaking Working Paper from the Wilson Center's Cold War International History Project features 77 documents on the rise and fall of the Sino-Vietnamese alliance during the Cold War as well as key contextual analysis from Odd Arne Westad, Chen Jian, Stein Tønnesson, and Nguyen Vu Tung.