From the Discussion with Comrade Fidel Castro on November 14, 1968, on the Outskirts of Havana

From the Discussion with Comrade Fidel Castro on November 14, 1968, on the  Outskirts of Havana

In response to an interposed question from Comrade Tisch, Comrade Castro declared that agriculture is the foundation of the Cuban economy. One could not tackle supplying Havana if one simply delivered everything to Havana and left the countryside empty. One cannot only import things for daily needs, rather one must especially import resources for agriculture. Cuba has to literally import everything. The situation in the GDR is different. The GDR produces 80% of its goods itself; the Soviet Union even 95%. That does not work in Havana. One cannot just call somewhere in Miami and simply order things. Filling the stores of Havana with groceries is problem #1. But the country is not equipped for this. If one were to do it, millions of people would have to starve. Comrade Castro continued that before there were only pairs of oxen in Cuba; today there are also tractors. Without the efforts that we are making today, we would not be able to solve any problems at all. 

When the revolution triumphed, we did not even know Cuba’s biography. The only thing that one could demand was that we do as few idiotic things as possible. The population was influenced by the habits of the American style of life. Those that had money could buy everything in Cuba that could be had around the world. There was a certain class instinct among the people, but no class consciousness. Prejudice against the construction of socialism was greater than in every other country. At the university, for example, where I studied in 1949, only 30 out of 15,000 students possessed anti-imperialist positions. Among those were the communist students. The others did not interest themselves in the slightest for politics. We were not politically equipped. Today, the people have changed. Back then, none of us would have believed it. 

One of the greatest difficulties after the revolution was the ignorance of the leaders in Cuba, those were our own difficulties. 

Comrade Verner: When building a new society, one makes mistakes. One just has to correct them in time. 

Comrade Castro: That’s right. Without errors one will not be able to build anything new. We had no idea what we should do. What was bad was not the mistakes, but not knowing what one should do, where one should begin. Through our ignorance we did a range of idiotic things, in other words we were incompetent due to our ignorance. 

Comrade Tisch: And for this very reason we socialist countries must move closer together to help each other. 

Comrade Castro: Karl Marx wrote a lot about what is to be done when the revolution is victorious. 

Comrade Tisch: Lenin also wrote a lot about that. 

Comrade Castro: Lenin? Yes, Lenin also wrote a lot about that. Lenin also lived through a period of learning. All the works that one reads by him talk about it. He wrote most of the works before the revolution. Lenin was a brilliant person. He taught how the revolution must be carried out. 

Comrade Tisch: Without studying the work “The State and Revolution” by Lenin, we would not have been able to utilize power correctly. 

Comrade Castro: I believe that. Lenin also said a lot about electrification. No one could have anticipated what he said about that then. 

Comrade Tisch: We have to contribute a lot to theory. It is clear to us that we could not have achieved anything without the theory of Marx and Lenin. 

Comrade Castro: One knows how to begin when one is armed with Marxist-Leninist theory. 

Comrade Verner: Marxism-Leninism is a theory of trade. One just has to put one’s mind to it.

Comrade Castro: Our revolutionaries all read books by Marx, Engels and Lenin. They read about the struggles for the education of the Bolshevik Party until they came to power. They comprehend Marxism-Leninism theoretically, but then comes the next step, the step of constructing socialism and communism. 

Comrade Verner: One of the most important insights of Marxism-Leninism is the alliance of the working class with the farmers, a principle that we all use. 

Comrade Castro: That’s right, one has to create the conditions for the construction of socialism. 

Comrade Tisch: When we began in 1945, it was no different for our leading comrades as for you, despite the potentially better conditions in our country than in Cuba. But we had one principle: there was a model case of socialism in the Soviet Union. That was the basis for our work. We applied Marxism-Leninism according to our national conditions. We learned a lot from the Soviet Union. It helped us in many respects. We do not keep that a secret. And it’s true to this day: if one wants to successfully lead socialism in the world to victory, it cannot continue as it has. In my opinion we have to rally closely around the Soviet Union and strengthen relations to the Soviet Union. We declared that explicitly at the 9^th Plenum. One must speak openly about this. 

Comrade Castro: That is logical and good. I mean, if the Germans did not think this way, we would have to be wrong. It would be astounding if you had another opinion. 

Comrade Tisch: And do you?

Comrade Castro: We do not have to have the same opinion as the Germans. We have great esteem for the Soviet Union. We appreciate them and have an understanding for their pivotal role. We also know the necessity of banding together. But the criterium is that we are not unconditional followers of the Soviet Union. We appreciate that they are the main bulwark of socialism. In its very nature, I admit that what you said is completely right, but not in the form in which it was said.  

Comrade Tisch: Form and content must however correspond. 

Comrade Castro: If we were to speak openly about all problems, then we would find ourselves in very complicated territory. I would like to say that you as Germans find yourselves in a very different situation vis-à-vis the Soviet Union than we do. You are adherents to the Warsaw Pact. With this, you have guarantees with regards to an act of imperialist aggression. You have a great number of Soviet divisions in your proximity that would fight at your side. These conditions are not present in Cuba. We have no assurance against an act of imperialist aggression. We do not have 20 divisions that protect us. You can sleep peacefully even though you have West German imperialism at your border. They will not attack you. If they do attack you, there will be a war against these aggressors. 

Comrade Verner: Then there would not just be a war in Europe, but rather a world war. 

Comrade Castro: We do not have the possibility to be so calm for an hour or even a minute. I tell you openly and without hypocrisy: you can be an apostle for that which has been said here, but we cannot speak in this form. We are in a different situation. We have greater risks than you. There is no one who would guarantee us help in the case of an act of US aggression. We do not have any borders with the Soviet Union. The US fleet is more powerful than the Soviet fleet. You all have guarantees, we not a single one. I say it clearly: ideologically, we a part of the socialist society, in goals, in thought and in feeling. But regarding our existence in the struggle against the one enemy who can attack us at any time, in this sense we are not part of the socialist community. 

If you believe that all that is a matter of minor importance, so we must say that we see things with different eyes. 

Comrade Verner: One must also say clearly that the Soviet Union possesses great weight in the political and moral defense of Cuba. Militarily I cannot say. 

Comrade Castro: The Soviet Union supplied us with weapons. We know that and will appreciate that. Soviet power stands ready to protect the GDR, but in case of an imperialist attack against Cuba, we are on our own. We received weapons from the Soviet Union, and we are unstintingly grateful for that.

Comrade Tisch: In your speech on August 23^rd you deployed a hypothesis: no state can be allowed to be broken out of the socialist community of states. 

Comrade Verner: One more sentence in addition to that. You are right that every country is jointly responsible for its defense. I am convinced that the existence and the strength of the Soviet Union and your determined struggle against imperialism have thwarted open aggression by US imperialism against Cuba to this day. If the preponderance of the Soviet Union was not at hand, no one could say what the situation would be today. 

Comrade Castro: That is correct. But one also has to see that there are new weapons that have been developed and that a new situation has arisen. We are alone here in this geographic area. If we were in Europe, that would be another matter. The problem of internationalism and independence is in itself of no value for us. 

We are not such people who do not want to have a different criterium. What is known to us are simple facts. We find ourselves here in Cuba. That is a fact. In spite of the opinion of other people we have to see the reality that we are very far away from the socialist countries, that we find ourselves in a special situation that we could only preserve through two factors: 

a. though the will of our country to survive

b. through the moral, economic and military support of the Soviet Union.

Had one of these factors been missing, then we could not have survived. 

What concerns the future, you have a greater security that we cannot have. 

Those are facts. 

Comrade Tisch said if one raises issues, one also has to discuss them. But we cannot pose the question so. It would not be correct if we raised all of these things. You are our dear guests, and we would not be good friends if we burdened ourselves with those difficult problems. That would be a mistake with regards to you.

Comrade Verner: What we would like is an exchange of views. Such an exchange of views does not take us away from being good friends and comrades. Solidarity and cooperation are essential. 

Comrade Castro: Yes, correct. But we try to be realists. Within this reality, we try to do everything that one can in order to approach you. We want to be realists, however. If one wants to move a millimeter forward, one will move a millimeter forward. If we wanted to move a kilometer forward, we would not be realists. Here lay the difficulties. We want to be modest in our endeavors. We would like to move forward millimeter by millimeter. 

Comrade Verner: One must certainly also see: the stronger that every socialist country becomes, the safer we will live. 

Comrade Castro: It would be wrong to think that we possess an unfriendly attitude vis-à-vis the Soviet Union. Our attitude is diametrically opposed to that. It is realistic. It proceeds only from the facts. The Soviet Union played a decisive role in our development, in our revolution. Relations between us and you have developed greatly. There were sensitivities in certain moments, but such things develop between such people that have drawn close together because frictions show up in this. 

Relations between us and the Soviet Union have developed exceptionally. There were moments when we stood before great risks. We were very, very sensitive. Maybe we overdid it. Maybe there was an exaggerated sentimentality proceeding from the high degree of risk associated with that. 

What we cannot do is this: that we immediately want to move a kilometer ahead without being able to.